Hi,

Last year, my car was insured with Hastings. When they sent through my renewal quote, it was far too high so I called to see if they could do better and they assured me that was the lowest I could get.

So I duly brought myself along to moneysupermarket and did a price comparison on the same terms as my old policy. There were lots of options cheaper than Hastings, but the cheapest of all was Hastings themselves!

I called to find out what was going on and was told that to get the (very sizeable reduction) I would have to tell them I wasn't renewing and then take out the policy via money supermarket. Any way, I did this, took out the policy via moneysupermarket and was happy to have saved money.

Then the phone calls and letters began asking for the renewal notice back - "why won't I return it?", "it's a legal document and doesn't belong to me" etc. To be honest I really couldn't be bothered, having already been inconvenienced by their unfair renewal process. If they were stupid enough to send me the thing without any indication that I would renew, and at a much higher price than they themselves were prepared to insure me at, then it's their own stupid look out if I won't send it back.

Eventually that interference trailed off and this morning (0116 231 6900, 11:46 am) I received their latest form of menacing phone call, "hello, I'm from Hastings Direct and I see you haven't bought the motor legal cover".

ME "Er no, why would I? If I need to sue somebody I'll just go to help hire or somebody like that."

HASTINGS (HD) "What if you hit somebody else? If they're injured, how will you pay that claim?"

ME "Um, that's what I have FULLY COMPREHENSIVE car insurance for"

HD "That just covers their car, not them, you could be stuck with a huge bill because even if you scratch the car, they'll sue for whiplash and you'll have to pay them thousands in compensation"

ME "I must be missing something. I thought that my car insurance covers damage I cause to third parties, not just their vehicles. I thought that this was the point of car insurance and was the reason that it was illegal not to have it."

HD "No, just their vehicles. You would be fully liable for any injuries. This only costs £22 for the year and it will protect you against that"

<think for a bit and decide that this sounds highly dodgy so I decide to check it out before proceeding>

ME "No thank you, I'll give it a miss today"

HD "I'm sorry? How much money have you got? How will you find a few thousand to pay a claim?"

ME (firmly) "I said I won't take the policy"

Hastings Direct hang up.

So here it is, am I missing something? Does car insurance really not protect people who I hit? If not, why is it a legal requirement? Have the government decided that cars need to be protected but the people don't?

More to the point, are Hastings Direct allowed to harrass their customers like this and frighten them into paying out more than is necessary?

I have just checked my policy documentation. The sheet called Key Facts, the table, Policy Features and Benefits, section 3, Liability To Third Parties. It reads:

We will cover your legal liability for the death of or injury to any person, caused by you using or being in charge of your car. We will also cover your legal liability in respect of damage to property up to £20 million (or £25million total, including all costs.

What should I do now? Their behaviour has been disgraceful.

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/01162316900

This is appalling - report this to the regulator http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/default.asp

ThanksTwee.

Good to have the confirmation that they are who they say they are.

The problem here is that there seems to be little way of disciplining them. The regulator is the Financial Services Authority, but they don't talk to the likes of us. I can take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service, but only if I first complain to Hastings and there is a clear reason to be dissatisfied with Hastings' response.

That's unrealistic as they'll realise I have them bang to rights and will just issue a bland apology but will do nothing else. Since I've suffered no loss, I couldn't expect compensation and if I make the point of the impact on other customers (I'm sure I'm not the only person who received this call) then they'll give some rubbish reply about reviewing their processes, blah, one isolated occasion, blah, ... The truth is there is little way of identifying whether they are still doing it and actually effecting real change.

At the same time, this is a hard sell (and a fairly menacing one, threatening people with financial disaster and rubbing it in ther faces) whilst also being a total mis-sell. They really are in the wrong.

The latest principle in Financial Services is "Treating Customers Fairly" (TCF) which in theory would get them slapped on the wrists for something like this, but when complaints are inadmissible to third parties until the insurer has failed to adequately respond, then ultimately it is toothless until some thousands of customers are affected. Although in fairness, one of the first companies fined for breach of TCF was Hastings, last year, so you never know.

I'm going to try to find out who their MD is and write to their office, inviting them (or a representitive) to visit this forum and respond. I doubt they will, but frankly they should, if only to reassure Moneysupermarket (who are passing them a lot of business).

Am I being too negative?

Thoughts?

Here we go, details of last year's TCF Fine: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmDiscHistoryDetails.do?discHistorySid=1634&sid=126619

Their board: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmIndivSearch.do?sid=126619

Their Chief Executive: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/indivBasicDetails.do?area51=true&sid=583685

The FSA do make it easy to find who is who in an insurance company. I'll contact them and post back!

Tom.

mr-tom:

So here it is, am I missing something? Does car insurance really not protect people who I hit? If not, why is it a legal requirement? Have the government decided that cars need to be protected but the people don't?

More to the point, are Hastings Direct allowed to harrass their customers like this and frighten them into paying out more than is necessary?

Hi there,

You are right in wanting to make a complaint as this is the kind of hard sale that is directly against the FSA regulations, especially where you have received completely false information.

Your insurance cover Fully Comprehensive, Third Party Fire & Theft or otherwise covers the legal liability for third parties. This is the first objective of insurance which is why it is a legal requirement.

You have obviously been telephoned by some school leaver with no idea how insurance works. Unfortunately you find this with companies that pay poor wages and not willing to invest in people to go on with further studying.

The only time legal expenses cover is of any use is when there is a dispute in liabilities and there is a 51%+ chance of recovering losses. A Before The Event policy costs the insurance company pennies when bought in bulk but an After The Event policy will cost a hundred or so pounds to defend the claim. The legal cover is designed to cover for uninsured losses. Their example of whiplash, scratches etc. is just completely ridiculous.

My advice would be to write a letter of complaint to People's Choice and Hastings with as much information as possible. If you receive an unsatisfactory reply then escalate to the Ombudsman and inform the FSA of their procedure.

NOTE: The number that called you was People's Choice, not Hastings themselves.

Thanks for that. But, who are People's Choice, how do they know my details (both personally identifiable information like my mobile number and commercial stuff like the details of my policy)?

Have Hastings broken data protection rules, also?

Quick update.

I have complained.

The manager I spoke to seemed very genuinely shocked by my allegations and I have encouraged her to find a call recording if one exists. I've also encouraged them to identify how many of these calls have taken place and how many customers have made a purchase following one. If they're unable to satisfy me that they've ensured no actual policies were successfully mis-sold then I will take the case to the FSA or FOS, but if they seem genuine and credible then I'll drop the matter.

Either way, thanks for your feedback so far and I'll post at least once more, once I know what's going to happen.

mr tom

I quote from "Peoples Choice" Website

"Hastings Insurance Services Limited, trading as Peoples Choice and Hastings Direct, is an independent intermediary and is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registered Number: 3116518. Registered Office: Conquest House, Collington Avenue, Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex TN39 3LW. Equity Insurance Brokers Limited, trading as insurance services, is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Registered Number: 258414. Registered Office: Library House, New Road, Brentwood, Essex CM14 4GD."

Therefore Hastings and Peoples Choice are one and the same

OK.

I spoke to them again today. They've found the call recording and agree it was wholly inappropriate as it tried to create fear, was aggressive and contained lies.

Hey, at least they're honest.

They have promised a full and thorough review of such calls and have said that it won't happen again. They are also worried that somebody may have bought after one of these.

I agreed to close the complaint as it seems they are responding responsibly.

Thanks all for your help.

Congratulations - this will be a FIRST - if Hastings actually learn from their mistake - I bet that they will forget soon though and the calls will start again

We shall see.

I had to take them at their word and the manager seemed both competent, honest and genuine.

I suspect the £375k TCF fine was quite a wake up call for them.

mr-tom:

I suspect the £375k TCF fine was quite a wake up call for them.

The FSA are no longer doing the TCF themed visits. They're too busy with the banking system or something. Can't imagine what that could mean... ;-)

They're instead incorporating them into ARROW and will visit a 100 firm cross-section of the financial services market between Jan and July, reporting back in Sept. They're actually using people from Ernst and Young (badged as FSA staff for the purposes of the exercise) to do the TCF components of the assessment, so if you want a taster of what it could look like then hire E&Y for a practice visit. No conflict of interest there then!

After that, it becomes business as usual and the FSA's TCF teams will get disbanded.

As such, this actually has the potential to become a damp squib as a huge number of companies will escape assessment.

According to the FSA they expect one fifth/20% of all firms to fail to hit the December deadline for demonstrating that they are consistently treating their customers fairly. BIBA are writing to recommend companies in having up to date and appropriate MI.

I luckily work for a firm that aren't dodgy or sly but I have worked for a company that will be absolutely rubbish at complying with the FSA.

I look forward to E&Y visit.