I am very surprised by the direction the MS has taken in this debate. I would have thought that an organisation that purpotes to give honest reviews and help people save money by giving them choices does not take time to research their own market place properly before committing to replies.

As has been stated previously the Utility Warehouse is a trading name of Telecomplus Plc. Its shares are publicy qutoed and its accounts are a matter of public information as its annual chairmans report. Its office is in North London as are its award winning customer services and sales support system.

The method of taking the product to market is via "Network Marketing" or Multi Level Marketing (MLM) Wiki defines netork marketing as follows:-

"Network Marketing, is a business-distribution model that allows a parent company to market its products directly to consumers by means of relationship referrals and direct selling."

The term marketing means a method of taking a product to its consumer. This (MLM) is a legitimate and low cost distribution model that is now so legitimate that it is taught by the Harvard Business School (HBS).

This is a quote from the HBS web site "Multi Level Marketing (not to be confused with illegal pyramid schemes) really has made lots of people rich. True entrepreneurs do quit well in this type of business, but it can be quite challenging. Also, in a sense, you are a dictator and founder of your own organization. You didn't invent the wheel. Your merely driving the vehicle that sets upon those wheels. Entrepreneurship at its finest!!"

As I recall all of the major energy and telephony companies have used direct to consumer marketing including door to door which resulted in many complaint to the watch dogs about sharp practices and poorly trained salespeople. Now I can't be sure but I dont know of any complaints about Telecom Plus or the Utility Warehouse.

The problem for MS is that of commissions. The Utility warehouse has steadfastly refused to pay commissions to such sites as this because they are not independent. They are in fact funded by commissions paid to them for sign ups and as such cannot be described as independent. They are in the business of driving people to switch if they didn't they wouldn't exist.

Given that this is the case if they refuse to acknowledge or give fair facts about other organisations which don't contribute to the sites finances they can hardly be viewed as as fair or independent. A great deal of confusion exists about energy and telephony but no other company has made guarantees to its customers in the way that the Utility Warehouse has done.

Please make sure if you are aiming to have credibility that you do your research more thoroughly in future

Regagrds

Andy Coyne

I have just discovered that when utility warehouse take over your phone line (pay line rental to them rather than BT) it becomes a none BT line. If you want to leave UW it appears that all the providers I have considered (AOL/TOSCALI/TT) insist on you having a BT line so it looks like a return to BT - but the only option (accodring to BT) is a new installation at £120

Anyone know if this is the same for all the other phone providers? Basically if I move to AOL/TT/TISCALI and then want to go to someone else do I have to go via BT? If I do then where is the choice?

As you can imagine I am ever so slightly annoyed

Normal 0

Having worked in this industry since 1999 working with both domestic and commercial telecommunications users here is my take on the situation.

When broadband (BB) first came to the UK market it used to be that if you signed up with one BB provider (ISP) the only way to transfer your service to another ISP was to cancel your service with your existing provider. This could take weeks or months depending upon how responsive they were and what your original contract with them was. The argument the ISP’s put forward was that they incurred costs setting up these services and so needed time to recoup those costs and also if a customer/user had agreed a term they should be obliged to stick to it. This, rather like some ISP’s today, seems to apply regardless of the quality of the BB provided.

Once your line was free of the other ISP you could then apply to have another ISP provide BB on your phone line. This could mean being without BB for weeks or months. What most people for whom BB had become essential did was to bite the bullet and have a new phone line installed. Then put BB onto that and then decide what to do with their original phone line. This was a huge pain in the a*** and a cost.

OFTEL who were the regulator at the time (and IMHO seemed to have more teeth to force companies to toe the line than the current bunch of consumer guardians [ROFL] OFCOM) introduced the MAC system. This enables you to change provider without losing your BB for more than a few hours. This system works well generally.

OK so far.

Now we move on to the present day and the new technology of local loop unbundling (LLU). What happens here is that the ISP puts their equipment into the BT exchange and when you transfer to that ISP on a low cost (Ha Ha Ha) line rental and BB combined service they take your phone line off the BT equipment and put it onto their own.

Here now is the scandal. It explains why BT like the system so much and why BT have changed their t & c’s so new customers are tied to BT for a 12 to 18 month term and upped their install charge from £25 to £125. It also explains why the likes of talktalk were keen to offer the gullible FREE BB (without regard to the quality of the BB offered). Lets see, there was the £30 enrolment fee, the £70 early cancellation charge, the difficulty in speaking with their overseas tech teams and overseas customer services. Now we have the revelation that if you want to leave them you have to go back to BT for at least 12 months at a new line install cost of £125. Not so FREE now is it. There is no such thing as a FREE lunch.

Anyone who offers LLU BB is in the same situation.

If you don’t like the service and want another ISP the only way out is back to BT for 12 months and then get a new ISP. This means no BB for the time it takes. Just like it was b4 the MAC system (see above) was created.

So what about the MAC system? Well here’s the final kicker. The dumbo’s who now run OFCOM (the consumer champions. Now you see why I laugh) did not envisage that people might become dissatisfied the their LLU BB provider and so have NO SYSTEM IN PLACE to allow LLU customers to transfer. I understand that they are working on such a system but as yet nothing exists and it could take up to 2 years to be implemented. BT again has pulled the wool over their eyes. Probably because BT have a number of “senior liaison people” working “very closely” with the OFCOM telecoms dept.

The only thing you can do is either stick with the scumbag ISP you hate, or get a new ISP to put a new phone line in for you (the least painful proposition I feel. Because b4 you change you will check out the new ISP thoroughly this time won’t you) or get BT to give you a new line and then pay BT the get out of BT’s contract fee of about £70 – total cost line plus fee about £200.

Oh by the way. Because the telephone line got transferred to the LLU ISP so did your telephone number. You know the one you have had for 10 years. The one that everyone knows. Well most likely you will lose that. By most likely I mean YOU WILL because the ISP now has control of that line and phone number and they are not going to let you go. The best way to think about it is if you moved house you might have to get a new phone number and then tell everyone who needs to know.

Next time somebody offers you FREE (especially well known High St names. They don’t really care about you, you know!) watch out!

Education is when you read the small print. Experience is when you don’t.

Wow - long reply but thank you

Interesting about the small print - it is very small and I cannot find anything about the state of the line. This scandal needs exposing but big business - and I don't mean just BT - are prbabaly making too much money.

I am now in the process of moving to TT. Yes you may say out of the pan into the fire but at least they are taking this on at no cost and will do all the work to move the phone and broadband all for £21/month. My research indicates that TT phone is as good as anyone else and their broadband - when working - is OK. Reliability for others on my exchange appears OK. I have no big download or gaming requirement so a standard connection should be OK, I hope, only time will tell.

here's crossing everything

No Thats is NOT the case

The Utility warehouse took the traffic from BT and BT can, with your permission, take it back at NO cost

They may be trying it on!

How refreshing

Somehow MS tries to appear transparent by is so opaque you cannoty see through their little tricks

BUT you did, thank you for ezxposing their naughty scam and money grabbing commissions as being in the consumers interest

They are patently NOT and are fat cats!

Thank you

Paul

I talked to BT twice. The line was checked and was reported as not a fully supported line. BT said they would need to reconnect and that it was the same as a new line because of its state. Looks like when Utility warehouse took it over it went to this poor state.

They may be trying it on but two checks and the same story with no offer to do anything but provide essentially a new line at the full price looks like a dead end to me.

This seems strange as Utility warehouse use a number of line providers and they are all first class providers who maintain the lines in the same way as BT and even BT do a lot of the maintenance BUt

WHY do you want to leave the Utility Warehouse when they offer such a great and great value product!

See Which etc

OPBB

my Utility Warehouse line goes through TalkTalk... why pay 2 companys for 1 product? UW are going to make a cut somewhere on the line so whats the point?

I have been with UW for 3 years, i am now having to get legal advice regarding their billing practice/charges and i have it on quite good authority i have a good case. I have 3 services (HAD) with this company and like yourself was informed that i no longer have a BT line and i have rang around and SKY have offered to refund any cost from BT for reconnection! I only know of one other person in my area who WAS with UW and they have had similar problems that have been mentioned in this forum, as for myself i am nearly a thousand pound in debt even though i live alone, out all day....and pay almost £80 a month for electricity only? I am too scared to use any electricity, even paying that amount my debt is increasing? will be interesting to see when my changeover occurs next week. I must say i have not had any real problems with my broadband as such only i am not getting anywhere near the speed i was quoted and paying for, when i enquired i was informed that i was lucky to be getting what i did cause of where i lived? but i have to plead ignorance on that part because i do not know enough of how it works. I was recommended by an ex-employer to go with this company, I signed my contract in a public house! I was impressed with the personal service that was initially available, but hey it was in the guys best interest to get me signed up, I have only really had issues with them for the last twelve months, all i can say to anybody thinking of signing with this company is do your research and make up your own mind, sometimes it is better the devil you know, all companies will try it on......but i have big regrets signing with UW, I will post any further developments in my case as becomes available!

as a follow up from previous post, BT have reconnected me free of charge! took some time to get through but the wait was worth it!!!!

Why leave? speed - rarely got close got the advertised speed and ended up at £30+/month. I expect to pay £21 with TT

Why leave indeed

1) The Utility warehouse cannot run their phones through another company so you should never pay to get thiese services twice

If you had broadband with utility warehouse then for £24.99 a month you get broadband at whateveer speed your local exchange and the distance from it to you offers which includes line rental, broadband, and free calls ot UK landlines (subject to 4 services)

So you leave UWDC for a more expensive route and "funny this" BT suddenly let you move traffic for FREE

Wasn't that what I told you in the first place!

You really should not have moved , but............................

Paul

Avoid Utility Warehouse at all costs for Broadband Services. Their customer care department is appalling and any problems you have with the line will be charged at an astronomical rate with little means of challenging them. Utility Warehouse is a middleman and pays BT for line repairs ets. Utility Warehose will not challenge BT if there is a dispute and will take the line of least resistance ie just charge the customer. Please see reviews before signing up to Utility Warehouse and example of one as follows (this isn't my review but I experience a very similar problem):

I signed up for their Broadcall service in September 07. Almost immediately my Internet connection kept dropping. Despite calls to their 'Technical Team', they constantly suggested the problem was either faulty wiring or faulty equipment.....Nearly 1 year later and after 23 phone calls, all simply 'fobbing me off' , I decided to write to them. Finally they sent round an engineer, advising me that I would be charged!!! However, low and behold the engineer found nothing wrong internally and found the problem was caused by Telecom Plus!!! I was compensated £38 for a year of no Broadband and my 23 phone calls...they say the problems I encountered QUOTE 'should be expected from a service that cannot be guaranteed to work' UNQUOTE!!!! Basically they couldn't care less. STAY CLEAR!!

Gents,

I use Utility warehouse for business and personal use and am very happy with them. I have saved a packet over the years and , yes, i have got my friends and family to sign up just because if was a great deal. (and the fact that when you speak to them its a british person on the other line)

MS - it would be a great catch to get these guys on your site good luck with that.

---

George