Hi,

I'm hoping I can find some advice out here, and from looking through this site it seems I have come to the right place. I have a credit card bill which I simply cannot afford to pay. I have pretty much ignored the situation and the letters asking for payment of outstanding balance - mainly out of fear, I guess - but I'm very worried about it. I have now missed 3 payments. I lost my job near the end of last year and haven't been able to meet the minimum payments. I did meet them for a while but now it's impossible.

The letters give a telephone number if I want to discuss a plan but after reading a few of the threads here I'm frightened to call as everyone says never to discuss over the phone. I'm almost suicidal now, with debt on this card of over £3500 and no way to repay. Does anyone have a suggestion or suggestions of my best avenues to take for this? I'm so scared of being taken to court, or repaying this card for years and years, or of collecting agents calling to my home.

Please, please, please.... help.

Thankyou, menvor

I have replied as you have said you are suicidal, please realise that this is not such a big issue in the scheme of things!

Speak with the CCCS they have a freephone for you to call them http://www.cccs.co.uk/

They are very helpful and will ease your fears. Stop panicking, it is pointless and not worth it.

Imagine how this guy feels! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/8036653.stm

Hi Menvor,

First thing to remember is thet £3500 may be a lot to you but it is small beer to the credit card company. Cruel as it might sound you are simply an account number to them and the tactics and threats are standard practice.

The advice not to call them is sound as they will ignore your circumstances and simply demand money that you are unable to supply. However, ignoring them is also not a good plan as this could be misinterpreted.

In the first instance I would write to them detailing your circumstances. Offer a payment level that you can afford, even if it is only £1 per month, it is still an offer and shows a willingness to resolve the situation. Ask them to freeze interest and charges as your circumstances will not prevent the situation spiralling out of control if they continue. They are receiving many such letters every day and your £3500 is relatively small in comparison with other people's situation.

In reality, they are unlikely to take you to court as this is expensive and unpredictable - they could lose and be significantly out of pocket, as well as the poor press this would inevitably cause. The CCCs public image is worth more to them than your account.

People cannot turn up at your door and demand payment, they cannot enter your home without your permission unless they first take you to court and obtain a distraining order. Any doorstep caller is required, by law, to make an appointment - don't agree to one. If they turn up - this happens far more rarely than most people think - don't answer the door, and call the police. As I say, this is not likely but the effect of the threat is what you are experiencing now.

You can try the CAB for advice as they are well versed in dealing with this sort of thing.

There are a few other things you can do but first I need to know when you received the card. The rules changed in 2007 but prior to this the process is easier. It may be possible to get the agreement declared unenforceable. This will not write off the debt but will prevent enforcement through the court. This will give you some more peace of mind, I suspect.

Keep in touch and we can help you through this, there is no need to panic or feel that you are alone.

S

Hi Stubie & thom,

Thanks so much for your replies, you've lifted a weight off, I can tell you. I had visions of collection agencies arriving at the door, court hearings, embarrassment, etc. so I'm very relieved at what you've said.

I'll write the ccc a letter tomorrow and offer them what I can. As for the card, I think I first got it around 2003 or 2004. The last replacement card I got was mid 2006, due for renewal mid 2008. I don't even remember if they sent out a new card that time as I had decided to stop using my card before that date had come and most probably threw it in the fire when (if) it arrived. Is it the date I got a new card that needs to be before 2007 or the date I initially signed up for a card with the ccc?

Look forward to hearing from you. Thanks once again for all your support :)

Menvor

Hi menvor,

you are not alone, the previous posts are right and it is puny to the companies. Keeping it in writing is good advice (in my experience they never record phone calls properly, if at all) and third party advice is good. Talking to CAB made me realise it was manageable and that I wasn't on my own in dealing with it.

for my sins I will confess I owe the same amount as you to the credit card but loads more on top of that on current A/Cs and loan. I have a job but not well paid and I have spent many a sleepless night worrying. It's still a weight on my shoulders but I am finding a way forward and feeling positive.

so hang in there. :)

I totally agree with the others. I would be suicidal without this forum, it really helps put things in perspective.

CAB might even make them accept £1 a month. Credit card companies aren't totally stupid they won't spend money on trying to get blood out of a stone.Nixxy put a really good template on another thread-I think it might have been Barclaycard. It got a really good response from Capital One, they were so polite and helpful.It was such a relief!

Keep up to date with your posts-it really really helps.

Hi Menvor,

If the card is pre april 2006, you can check if they CCC has a valid agreement. If they don't they cannot enforce the debt.

All you need to do is send this to the card company:

Dear Sir / Madam

Re: Account No: XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

With reference to the above account, I would be grateful for a signed copy of my executed Consumer Credit Agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of this agreement upon request. I therefore enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Enclose a £1 postal order or a cheque from some one else - don't send anything with your signature on and don't sign the letter, send registered post. They have 12 working days to provide the agreement, which must conform to the requirements of the act. if it doesn't, it may not be enforceable.

Its up to you but it may be worth a go

S

Hi guys,

On Tuesday I got a call from the CCC collections dept. I told them my circumstances and they did seem to be okay about it. They did, however, put me on the spot and I agreed to pay a nominal fee this month (which is a good deal less than my minimum owed). They seemed happy with this and said they would send out a pack that I need to fill in to declare my circumstances etc. but that they would be happy if I was paying back something in the meantime. Should I forge ahead with that? I guess I was wrong in agreeing to anything on the phone? Should I pay as agreed or go down the route of applying for my agreement? I'm not sure, if I pay this nominal fee I told them I would, does this in any way ruin my chances of success if I decide at a later date to ask for my agreement and have it declared unenforcable? I would like to pay it off, but not spending years and years doing so, or being stuck in a rut if it becomes unmanageable and I wind up leaving myself in more trouble when I could have avoided it by just going down the route you mentioned above. Am I making any sense?

Stubie, I was also just wondering, is it the *replacement* card that needs to be pre-April 2006 (ie the one they sent out after the one before it expired), or is it the *first* card I had issued with the company that this applies to?

All the best,

menvor :-)

Menvor,

I think its good that the CCC have accepted what you offered. Just be sure they haven't pushed you into agreeing to pay more than you can afford to. Think about what you have verbally agreed to pay, and ensure it is something you can comfortably pay.

Your likely to get less phone calls, and letters down the line from the CCC if you start making this repayment, rather than requesting a CCA.

Have they agreeed to freeze the interest for you? Have they said it would be recorded as a default on your credit file?

As many others have said, its not worth getting so stressed. I felt this way myself once, till I realised it wasn't worth taking my life for. I hadn't committed a criminal offence by owing money, so take it in your stride, and don't stress over it.

Take care Nixxy

Hi Menvor,

At the end of the day, you must do what you are comfortable with. I am a great believer in repaying a debt owed.

Nixxy is also right, don't overstretch and get in further trouble.

As far as what to do is concerned, you can go either way, or do both. The CCA request is a perfectly legal and legitimate request, they have to complyand you don't have to stop payments.

I would fill in the pack they send and see what they come back with. I would also ask for the agreement. If they haven't got it then, in the future, you feel that the situation is getting out of hand with the payments, it is a strong bargaining tool to freeze interest etc, if they don't do that anyway. If they produce it, at least you know.

As things are, they will be glad to get payments as so many are withholding them on unenforcible agreement claims.

I think if they treat you well then you are more inclined to agree, if they treat you poorly then it will get your back up. Its in their interest to keep you happy and get some money coming in.

Its in your interest to be able to sleep at night.

S

Thanks for your comments stubie & nixxy.

I got the pack in the mail this week but haven't filled it out yet. I was wondering, should I sign it at the bottom in the space provided or just print on there? I'm still not sure if I send off this form and start into this new agreement if things will be any better. It says on the booklet I got with the form that once I enter into this agreement they will issue a default notice with the credit reference agencies which will remain on record for 6 years. I assumed by entering into an agreement like this with them, that one of the 'incentives' would be that there's no default notice recorded. So if I just decided to get the copy of the credit agreement and - if they actually didn't have it - decided to just not pay the bill, would this not in effect have the same results as far as my credit rating goes (ie a 6 year default notice)?

I guess after getting this pack I've felt worse, rather than better, than I did when they first told me I could pay a smaller amount off etc.

Thanks guys, menvor

In my experience the CCCs say they will definitely put a default notice on your file because they consider you to be in breach of your original agreement and they take the moral high ground of duty to honestly recoad blah blah.... I've gone down the route of reduced payments and asking for credit agreements. My point of view is that even if I decide to pay the debt back at a rate I can afford without extortionate interest being applied(and don't forget CCCs haven't dropped rates in line with the base rate-profiteering because many people relied on credit when mortgage payments were high),if there isn't a signed agreement how can you be in breach of it?

I don't think everyone will agree with me on this but if you later pursue the no signed agreement route, the point seems to be-not that you owe these people money but whether there is legal enforceable agreement in place that commits you to paying the debt back on their terms ie interest,frequency and level of payments(or at all ?????)

But I think you should be careful with what you sign now from this pack, it could be that you are signing something that's enforceable

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Because if for some reason the new agreement become unmanageble in the future then I'd rather I hadn't done anything to resolve a situation that I could - in effect - maybe have avoided by simply going down the unenforceable route. Thing is, once I get the money together I absolutely will pay this debt off anyway. But I'm now reluctant to sign anything that could wind me up in more stoosh than I am at the minute, if you know what I mean.

Another thing I'm wary about is the amount of information they want provided, copies of bank statements, copies of payslips etc. In the booklet it also states the possible penalties for failing to keep to the new plan. These include:

. Passing your account to a debt collection agency

. Taking legal proceedings to obtain a court judgment against you. The legal costs incurred will be added to your balance.

. Applying for a charging order over your property to secure any court judgment.

. Applying for an attachment of earnings order to enforce any court judgment.

. Visiting your home to collect the balance.

They currently don't have information like bank account details or current employer details, so surely giving them this information gives them more power to contact banks/employers and state the situation and/or arrange to have money deducted from an account or wages. As it is, I only having living allowance money in my account (barely), and have just today started working in a part-time (low-paid) job. I don't want to have them contacting a new employer about this sort of thing.

Any ideas on the best plan of action from here?

Thanks kindly, menvor.

Menvor,

I can understand why you feel like that,I certainly would not be wanting to give them anymore ammo. I'd like some else's imput on this, but if you intend to pay it back at some point(like quite a few of us on this site)and are just wanting breathing space you could go to CAB. They will probably want all that info but they are on your side and won't use it against you.They will act as a sort of buffer, won't try to make you commit to something you can't afford and won't threaten you with all that other stuff.

Or you could go down the requesting signed credit agreement route(but they will still pester you for a while) , and there's always FOS , but you need to find out if cccs can/will produce a signed properly executed agreement first and go from there.FOS step in when all else fails and you have hit a brick wall , I don't think we can run to them at the first sign of trouble, you have to give cccs opportunity to resolve the situation . CCCs have to give a letter confirming that this is their final word.Then FOS will look into it.THey have a very informative website.

These cccs are snowed under with people challenging agreements and tend to be very robotic and aggressive, they will try every dirty trick in the book to get money out of you. The main thing is to stay calm, know your rights, be polite and firm and put on your'reasonable' voice.

Another thing about all this info they want about you, there must be something in the Data Protection Act about this sort of stuff.Stubie???????

Hi again everyone,

Just an update on this. I sent the letter recommended the above post and got a reply back within 4 days. The ccc did not send any copy of the original signed agreement. What they did send was a letter saying the following, and what seems to be a standard letter titled Terms Of Your CCA plus a generic CCA leaflet.

"Thankyou for you recent letter requesting copy documents for your account. You requested copies of the executed credit agreement and a statement of your account under section 78 of ther Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement as requested. In accordance with sectoion 78 of the Consumer credit Act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, this is your original agreement and if any terms have been varied, then the copy agreement will include the updated terms.

In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signaturer and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983..."

It's the part where they say they are permitted to NOT send a copy with the signature etc that gets me. What happens here? And what should I do next? I also got a different letter from the legal reps the same day saying I need to contact them to either make the full payment of arrange a plan, within 3 days, or further action may be taken.

I'm back to the panic stages now. I never slept a wink last night and have had a severe bout of headaches & panic-type bursts all day today.

Any ideas what I do now? Thanks for any help (and for the help amd advice you've all given so far.

Best,

mennie