Hi Basa,

you missed a word out.

" Generally the CCCs can throw almost unlimited taxpayers cash at a case"

It is also worth noting that the banks, if you contact them, will assist you in financial planning, true enough. Did you know that they CHARGE for this service - in many cases over £100!

And what's the betting that they would use the application of this service to ensure that their own debts are serviced with considerably more priority than would be the case under independent advice.

Hi Stubie-One,

Thanks for your reply.

I have since received a photo copy from Lloyds tsb of what they claim is my original signed cca.

It looks to be a copy of an application form, but im not sure it is a properly executed agreement

which would be enforceable by a court. Is there any way you could take a look at it, im not sure how to

do these things !

Redforever

What some people do is place a copy on photobucket ( online storage) and then add a link to their post.

Just remember to remove all personal information before you add.

It could be an enforceable agreement, if it contain the necessary bits.

(a)The amount of credit or (credit limit).
(b)The credit charges.
(c)The rate of interest and whether it will vary throughout the agreement.
(d)A notice of cancellation, if it is a cancellable agreement.
(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
(f)Details of the repayment schedule.

Have a read through the document. Tick off which bits are present and which are not.

If this is an application form, usually the credit limit is missing from what I have read. They should have sent you the actual CCA containing all information, when application form was processed. Perhaps they don't have a copy of the actual CCA.

Huckster

Thanks Huckster,

This is the best route as many skilled posters can offer their interpretation.

As You say, remove personal details, we don't need them and there are other, less welcome, eyes runnig through these forums trying to identify the posters.

If this fails then there is an email addy, click on my username and its in my profile. Scan and email - still remove personal stuff, I will never need to know who you are or where you live etc. especially remove account and card numbers etc as the creditor moles can identify you from this.

All the best

S

Thanks Stubie-one,

I have emailed you the copies of the documents

Links to photobucket for copies of documents also.

http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad179/redforever/lloydstsb1.jpg

http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad179/redforever/lloydstsb2.jpg

Redforever

Huckster,

Thanks for your information.

As you can probably see I have added the documents to photobucket and the links are in the post above.

Thanks again

Redforever

Nope, me neither! neither any cancellation rights, this would be a cancellable agreement, What a shame.

Redforever, just sending you a PM.

The documents have all the hallmarks of microfished copies, they will need the original to enforce - these may meet s78 but will not withstand a hearing.

S

Stubie-One:

The documents have all the hallmarks of microfished copies, they will need the original to enforce - these may meet s78 but will not withstand a hearing.

S

Not sure about this. I understood that where original copies are not available then copies may be accepted under Civil Evidence Act 1995 section 8.

Can anyone confirm a definitive rule on this?

Stubie-One:Documents pre 1984

More clues please!!

basa48:

Stubie-One:Documents pre 1984

More clues please!!

Bump!

I haven't forgotten Tsk Tsk

Thought you would be able to work it out from that.

...............

Seriously, rules of evidence are set out in CPR. CPR overrides the Evidence Act which is primarily concerned with hearings not under CPR jurisdiction.

There is a general acceptance that documents over 25 years old may have degraded to such an extent that a copy would be preferable to aid clarity.

CPR contradicts the Evidence Act, CPR is the primary standard for evidence in the court tracks.

S

Stubie-One:

CPR overrides the Evidence Act .......................

S

Ah...now I didn't know that!!

Looks like I may have shown my ignorance by quoting the Evidence Act in a reply to one of my (American) creditors who have produced a 'mash up' of an agreement to make it look compliant.

Many thanks, of course, that makes a BIG difference in my fight for survival.

The evidence act relates primarily to hearings not held under court rules but where strict evidence rules apply.

In a court environment, CPR is the framework and the evidence provisions of CPR apply.

S

(sorry :-))