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Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

Last post Thu, Oct 13 2011, 8:56 PM by huckster. 28 replies.
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  •  Thu, Oct 13 2011, 8:56 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    This has changed a little since the posts to this thread. They can send you a reconstituted copy of the consumer credit agreement and terms/conditions to comply with part of the act. This does not mean that if you stopped paying that they could take you to court using the same document, but even if they did not take you to court, they would wreck your credit record/rating with the late payments and default.

    Can I suggest that you have a look at the Community Action Group debt forum. It is free to join and when you post a thread with full details, you will get many more replies. The people who used to reply to threads about debt matters on this forum, no longer post here.

    The advice is always to get proper debt advice from Citizens Advice or National Debtline, so they can look at your whole financial position. It would not be wise for you think that you can stop making the repayments and then look to make a case of unenforceability. There have been several cases where a judge had ruled that creditors can basically wreck your credit records and continue debt collection, even though they don't have the original credit agreement. Could you put up with 10 years plus of debt collector phoning you, sending letters, doorstep visits and threats of court action, including bankruptcy.

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, Oct 13 2011, 6:27 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Hi,

    I've also recently found myself in a similar situation to debttrapped with Barclays over a credit card agreement. I stumbled across this forum when researching unenforceable credit card agreements as I have been really struggling to pay off one particular card as the balance just goes up and up every month because of the interest.

    I sent the letter conmankiller suggested in the post dated Sunday November 2nd 2008 on September 7th this year to Barclays and have received some contact from them. The first letter I received was dated 9th September and said they were dealing with the request. I then received a letter dated 7th October with "a reconstituted copy" of my credit agreement and a statement of the account. The debt was originally owned by Goldfish and this "reconstituted copy" is just a photocopy of the original Goldfish terms and conditions with a front sheet that states my address in the top left corner and, about 3/4 of the way down the page, a box that states "YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL: Once you have signed this agreement, you will have for a short time a right to cancel it. Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us". There is no signature on either of these documents and nowhere that looks like it could have been/should have been signed.

    I was also informed in the 7th October letter that a copy of the terms of the credit agreement would be provided in another letter that was to follow. That letter arrived today, also dated 7th October and had a copy of the Barclaycard Terms and Conditions attached. These T&C's have my name and address printed at the top in small print but there is also no signature at all on this document either.

    I have seen the letter suggested to debttrapped on Sunday 11th January 2009 and wanted to check that I am right in thinking that this should also be my next move. I worked out that the original 12 working days expired on September 27th and so the 30 days that follow that are up in early November. Have Barclay now defaulted on the account because they have failed to provide the correct information or should I send a separate letter explaining that they still have not provided a signed copy of the agreement and have until the end of the 30 day time limit to do so.

    I am still making the minimum monthly payments on this account at the moment but if they have defaulted then it would be a great help to know it. I am arranging an appointment with Citizen's Advice for next week so they can look over the documents and tell me where I stand also.

    Thank you for any help you can give :)
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Mar 12 2009, 5:57 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Not yet at this stage, wait and see what happens once they receive your letter stating the reason why you have stopped making payment. Depending on their reaction, lets cross that bridge if they give you reason to complain. !
    • Post Points: 44
  •  Thu, Mar 12 2009, 3:15 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Thanks CK. I think I will write to them to tell them that I am going to stop making payments and why.

    Is it worth making a complaint or contacting the ombudsman?

    • Post Points: 35
  •  Wed, Mar 04 2009, 1:45 AM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Didn't realise you were making payment, but yes, while an account is disputed you cannot be held liable for repayments on an alleged debt, they should have provided proof well before now, so stop the payments.

    If it makes you feel more secure also send them a letter stating the reason for the record why you have stopped making payments, through their continued failure to provide a legally valid CCA as you have repeatedly requested.

    • Post Points: 80
  •  Wed, Mar 04 2009, 1:28 AM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    So should I stop making payments? I have been scraping together money to make sure I didnt default, but it is getting incrediby difficult for me now to keep up with the payments...
    • Post Points: 50
  •  Wed, Mar 04 2009, 1:17 AM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Do nothing.. at least if until they contact you, and try stop worrying at least no news is good news in your case. !

    The enforceability deadline has now passed and all procedures have been followed by you, even if they produced a late agreement it would be deemed too late to apply for enforcement. Keep all letters and proof of postage safe and secure.

    • Post Points: 80
  •  Wed, Mar 04 2009, 1:00 AM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Hello again,

    As per the previous advice above, I have waited for Barclaycard to respond to my second request for a signed agreement and have not heard anything. The time limit for them to reply to my second request has now lapsed.

    Do you have advice on what I should do now and what is the situation likely to be regarding enforceability? Is it worth me calling them to see why they havent sent anything?

    Many thanks,

    DT

    • Post Points: 50
  •  Tue, Feb 03 2009, 5:51 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    ok, thats fair enough I will wait. I just thought that as it said in my last letter 7 days that had lapsed. But i dont mind waiting. however ive just calculated the following for infomation:

    My initial request was received by them on the 11/11/08, 14 working days from then would be: 2/12/08. They sent me my a response on 2/1/09.

    My second letter was received by them on the 19/1/09. 30 working days from which is 3/3/9.

    From my original request based on the above it has now been around 55 working days.

    Many thanks again for your time and help. I will keep you posted.

    • Post Points: 35
  •  Tue, Feb 03 2009, 5:35 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    With reference my post 11/01 ...WAIT a little longer, from the date they receive the initial CCA request they have 14 working days to respond. If they still fail to provide after a further 30 calender days it becomes unenforceable.

    They need a valid CCA to produce to the courts before the courts will legally enforce the debt, after they produce this then the allegation turns out to be a fact instead.(you have made a prior request as of right to see this proof) ......Don't believe everything you hear. !

    • Post Points: 80
  •  Tue, Feb 03 2009, 3:35 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Hello again,

    Further to the above advice I sent barclaycard a follow up letter based on the above template, which they received on the 19th January. That is at least 10 working days ago and they have still not replied.

    Do you have any further advice on what I should do next, what is the maximum amount of time that they have to comply?

    In addition I have heard somewhere that if it does turn out that an agreement does not exist or is not valid, then ideally i need to get a court (?) to rule that the agreement is invalid and hence the account unenforceable. Is this correct and if so how would I do this?

    As always any help is hugely appreciated.

    Many thanks,

    • Post Points: 50
  •  Tue, Jan 13 2009, 12:55 AM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    I would err on the side of caution just in case they do manage to produce a valid CCA it's early days and you would be left having to reset the DD's and in arrears, if you were in fact liable at the end of the process.

    Once the full time limits have expired then you should certainly cancel, if they have still failed to comply.

    • Post Points: 80
  •  Tue, Jan 13 2009, 12:38 AM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Great. I will keep that in mind. Particularly as it is unlikely that they are just going to roll over and say ok your debt is cleared. I am expecting at least some kind of 'hard ball'.

    However just a quick question, as they have not sent me the agreement, do you think I should cancel my direct debit and stop making any kind of payment to them?

    Thanks again!

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Jan 11 2009, 10:14 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    debttrapped -- Never lose sight of the fact, until they can produce a legally prescribed and signed CCA that has been requested as per your statutory right, they cannot take any further enforcement action against you as the courts would not entertain their claim. They know this fact....they can bluff, hiss and blow all they like, but they cannot change the law. !
    • Post Points: 80
  •  Sun, Jan 11 2009, 10:08 PM

    Re: Unenforceable C/Card Agreements

    Thanks again CK. I honestly really appreciate your help.

    I will do the above as suggested and see how I get on. Will keep this thread posted.

    • Post Points: 50
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