Yeah, I probably deserve it.

I have bene a Tiscali customer for over 6 years now. Most of the times I had little roblems withthem.

Until this month.

I normally pay my bilby direct debit, which usually comes out on 1stof the month. His month, because I lose my job de t depression, know that the money won't be in the account at that date, but one day later, so I called Tiscali and requesed they take the payment out on the 2nd. hey refused.

They tried to take the payment out on the 1st of uly, theres no money in the accoutn so the charge gets reversed. On the 2nd, as soon as I have money, I call them and make the payment over the phone.

On 7th of July, Tiscali took a payment of 68 pounds from my account. This payment was not authorized. I called them and requested an immediate refund. They said that their system automatically billed me twice and that the request for the refund would be processed in 5 working days.

On the 9th of July I called again, they tol me the request was being processed.

On the 12th of July I called again, and I get told that because the next billign cicle has been processed by them, the money they took from me will be put towards the next bill- which is to be paid on 1st August. At hearing that, I insisted and bickered with them until I got a manager on the line. This manager, who unlike the rest of them seemed to know what the hell he was doing, put a request through to their finance department to have my money refunded in full.

Today 14th July I called again, and got told that my request was denied because they had already processed the payment of the next bill.

On short: they took money out of my accoutn without authorization, refused to refund it and pretty much forced me to pay the next bill 3 weeks in advance.

This is fraud and a violation of the Direct Debit Code.

Be warned.

awareness:

This is .... a violation of the Direct Debit Code.

Probably, and no you don't deserve it.

If an originator makes a direct debit collection of a changed amount or a changed date without any or sufficient notice you are entitled to an immediate refund from your bank. I stress the word immediate, its sufficient that you assert there was no or insufficient notice. Any investigation, if any, takes place after the refund.

Your bank will wriggle like h*ll, but insist. The bank adviser will be able to call up a screen with a list of applicable reasons. Pick the correct or closest reason. If the bank refuses to make an immediate refund turn it into an official complaint against the bank.

I have stressed the word immediate (4 times) becasue that is the word in the Direct Debit Guarantee.

awareness:I have taken this with my bank. They said they will put in a request wth Tiscali to get my money back.

That's not right. The bank must make an immediate refund under the Direct Debit Guarantee and then recover the money from Tiscali.

Awareness

Jelexa is right, your bank has to apply an immediate refund to your account if you can show them that your rights under the Direct Debit guarantee have not been complied with by Tiscali.

See the BACS link. http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Consumers/DirectDebit/HelpCentre/Pages/IncorrectPayments.aspx

Banks try to avoid refunding if issue regarding DD guarantee is not advised to them within a certain number of days. But the bank can if it chooses deal with this as a late return (payment returned unpaid) to tiscali and then apply the refund to your account.

huckster

huckster:

That's an interesting point about the level of proof required. I say you can't prove a negative therefore the "immediate refund" requirement must have precedence.

On the (infrequent) occasions I have had to seek an immediate bank refund the banks have wriggled like h*ll but with persistence its clear that there is a screen available to a counter banking adviser and a workflow to deliver an immediate refund and, in time, bank recovery from the company claimed against.

Jalexa

Any proof is not necessarily onerous. It is just a statement of facts as to what has happened. E.g The debit was taken without consent, for too much or too early, with just a comment about the reason to request immediate refund. This is just so the bank staff can select the appropriate reason for the return and apply relevant comments. The banks will have a workflow within which they work. In this case we are within the time frame to allow an immediate refund to be made without reference to Tiscali.

huckster

Thank you guys, I followed your adviceandmy bank immediately gave me the refund. Funny how they never mentioned they could, huh?

The point still remains that Tiscali are a bad company with onerous practice and horrid customer service. I don't think it's the fault of their employees, who are probably paid miserable wages- the people I talked to today were in Manila- but from what I understand they get financially penalised if they put too many calls to a supervisor.

Hi there

I've recently joned Money Supermarket as I've been trying to get help with Pipex/Tiscali. It's a long story but since the end of 2008, I have not received a paper bill from them and I have not been able to access my account with Pipex as either my password or login information is not valid. Have phoned so many times, been told its sorted out, but still no luck. Lost my job in January this year, asked for a change of date for the direct debit, told yes but didn't happen, therefore incurred bank charges. Rang to let Pipex know, apologised, asked for another change of date, told yes - didn't happen. Paid the outstanding bill with a debit card. Even thought I had no written proof of the amount they were claiming was due, they still took money out of my account - not sure if this is fraud or embezzlement. Then in June, same thing happened. My service was again "temporarily suspended" with a barring placed on the account. Paid the bill on 9 June, told that services would be reinstated within 24-48 hours - nothing. Rang again, told the same thing over and over again. Customer Services blamed Credit Control, then Credit Control blamed Technical.

Was told that I had a £46 credit on my account on the 11 June due to the lack of services, but was then reduced to £12 as they had taken out my June bill - even though none of my services were working! Despite spending £70 on mobile phone bills to rectify this, writing six letters which were sent by Recorded Delivery, I only received one letter, telling me that they were looking into the problem but couldn't understand why the barring had not been lifted. This went on for six weeks, with no replies to my letter, my phone calls to Customer Services/Credit Control were a complete waste of time and then I had a "reminder" from them that I owed £7.98!!!! When I finally got through to them to ask why I had this balance as I did not have any services, they said it was for bill for July - and "if I paid the £7.98 they will reinstate my servcies" - I term this as blackmail.

I have never been so stressed about any company in my life - complete and utterly useless phone calls to either India or Manila, each Department blaming the other, a blackmail attempt, no replies to any of my letters - even to the CEO or whatever his/her title is and I was without my phone from 9 June until 20 July when I finally swtiched to another provider. I have told Pipex/Tiscali that I am prepared to take them to court for the breach of contract and stress I have been caused. I have been told they will look at some form of compensation but so far haven't heard anything, and now that I have moved to another provider, I think they believe I will just go away - but I will not!

Does anyone have any advice - lega or otherwise - about this rogue company? I have also been told that although Tiscali bought out Pipex, they have now been bought out by Talk Talk who apparently are just as bad as the others.

ScreamingBanshee:

Does anyone have any advice - lega or otherwise -

Yes, will just deal with the general case, not the specifics which is up to you.

It's essential to submit a proper complaint. A telecom operator must have a regulator agreed code of practice on complaints. Obtain it and follow it scrupulously. If you are not satisfied with the response you are then entitled to ask the named alternate dispute resolution provider to investigate the complaint. Do it properly and two very important things happen. Firstly their failure to respond is no defence because 8 (or 12) weeks after first raising the complaint you are entitled to refer the complaint - even if there has been no response whatsoever. Actually being ignored is quite a good outcome assuming you have proof such as Signed For delivery of your letter or perhaps a phone bill record of your call. Secondly the organisation gets hit with a hefty case fee regardless of the outcome. Cost you nothing.

Do it properly and the organisation will hate you but quite likely you will get a result.

SB

First of all as soon as any company breaches your Direct Debit Guarantee you should have requested your bank to return the direct debit unpaid and refund your account. This would have forced pipex/tiscali to sort out the DD with you and avoided some of the issues you have experienced. This is bye the bye, but a lesson for others.

Alot of issues here and yes I suppose you could take them to the small claims court. Go to Citizens advice and they will explain the process. Whether you have to go to the regulator OFCOM first before court I am not sure.

TalkTalk did take over Tiscali in May 2009 from what I have read. TalkTalk are part of Carphone Warehouse Group PLC.The CEO is Charles Dunstone whose email is cdunstone AT cpw.co.uk detailed on their website. Address: 1 Portal Way, London W3 6RS.

Tel: 020 8896 5000

Fax: 020 8896 5005

What I would recommend that you do. Write a letter setting out the issues you have experienced in a date order. Do as a bullett point or list, rather than a rant, but get the point accross that they TalkTalk are in a mess with the Tiscali business they have taken on and this has led you to take advice about taking legal action.

Send the letter by fax, email and recorded delivery. By addressing this to Charles Dunstone, you may get somewhere. Pipex/Tiscali were already in a mess before TalkTalk took them over and appeared on various consumer forums.

Whenever I have had any issue with a company I have sorted the matter out with the CEO. I doubt that your letter will be ignored as if they did this, it would be embarrasing if you then complained to the regulator.

Good luck

Huckster

Huckster

Thanks for the information. Did as you suggested, emailed, faxed and sent my letter by Recorded Delivery to Charles Dunstone. Had an email back from someone named Stephanie White, saying that my letter was not attached to my original email and asking me to use that email address only to reply. Did as suggested, re-attached the letter and sent it off. Surprise, surprise ..... within a few minutes had a delivery failure message, telling me that the email address I had used was not in use!

Have faxed the letter through again with a covering letter, expressing my horror about the returned email. That was Wednesday 29 July and so far, no letter of email of acknowledgement. Will give them until tomorrow (Friday 7 August) and then decide what to do. Have also lodged this complaint with Otelo who, in fairness, have emailed their procedure - most of it is out of date, as I am no longer with Pipex but am continuing the fight! I have forwarded all emails and correspondence to them and hopefully should hear from them within the next week.

Pipex have offered me £50 "credit" - which I still consider to be an insult .... obviously they don't see it that way .....

SB

SB

Email delivery problem may just be down to security firewall issue. You should give them a call on the number in previous post and see what the issue is. Ask to speak to Stephanie White or if not available Mr Dunstones PA.

Huckster

Tried to call them direct last Friday but was told that I couldn't speak to either Mr Dunstone or his PA as this was not allowed. When I asked who Stephanie White was, was told that she works in the Customer Services Department and then they sounded very unsure of themselves. Have refaxed all the relevant information to Carphone Warehouse again - but still nothing - not even an acknowledgement. Still waiting to hear from Otelo but I have read some of the comments about their lack of help, so not sure if I will have the same response.

Have also heard through the grapevine that several people I know are currently with Tiscali/TalkTalk and they have been without an internet service for over three weeks ..... surely someone at Carphone Warehouse must be aware of this situation?

I have a day's leave tomorrow so going to speak to my local CAB Office to see what they have to say.

Any more advice from anyone would be appreciated.

SB

SB

From what I have read CW maybe having problems with the business they have taken on. The MD at CW responsible has just jumped ship to go to work for Vodafone from September.

This is awful customer service. I just think you need to keep pushing and eventually someone will take on your complaint, to try to resolve it for you.

Huckster