If this is an example of the way you think you'll increase the average IQ by leaving....

As for saying that others shouldn't use this thread to pursue their agenda, why not? If you don't want a full range of responses don't post on a public board.

Incidentally, why do you bring your religion into it?

Great answers every one and I am glad you have been able to make the right decision Sharkey. I just happened to stumble upon this forum whilst in search for my answer on the same topic.

I would like to add here Sharkey that ... you are very right in saying that better the dump you know than the Utopia you don't, but I do not necessarily agree with it.
If you don't find out, you never know either, the chance and risk is worth it for the grass might actually be greener on the other side. You will never know until you go there and see for yourself? What if any of these countries suit you mindset better than the UK. It would then be a missed opportunity missed as opposed to playing safe.

Thanks again every one.

Tyro

Indispensable:

Best wishes for 2008 Sharkey.

Thanks to everyone for their valuable advice here. The UK has become one hell of a dump in the last few years, but - as people know - better the dump you know than the Utopia you don't!

SHARK!

Landshark:

We decided - and 'yes' it was a family decision - that for the immediate future, we would stay in the UK. Not because it is some kind of shining beacon, but because it is easier to deal with the things you know than those that you don't.

SHARK!

Good news Shark! Glad you're staying. Better the devil you know hey?!!!

I know you'd still be in touch if you did vacate the country but I'd rather you had your finger on our buttons here and thus are able to pass your wealth of knowledge onto us lot, about the things that need sorting out in 'our' country.

I'm sure it was a difficult decision and that you've done lots of research and soul searching before you finally decided. I hope that it proves to the the right decision for you and your family. We're certainly glad to be keeping you here!

Best wishes for 2008 Sharkey.

My strategy is to work here, to build up 'wealth' then retire to somewhere where the cost of living is cheaper - UK retirement income against some other country's cost of living should work well.

My parents have movedto NZ - it's great, but they have environmental extremism and there are cultural problems as yet not properly resolved so governemt can still make a nice place less nice. I expect it's similar in Australia.

So, I reckon you've made the right decision.

Adrian

to the eurozone? or to sunny (and cheaper) thailand?

Oh please don't apologise Shark, it was a really worthwhile debate for many. Although I have never really thought about living somewhere else my husband has often talked about it, (all that worldwide travel courtesy of HM Govt.). It was really interesting to see everyones point of view.

We are pleased you are hanging around for now and look forward to more "Sharkbaiting" in 2008.

Have a good one!

DD

Although I regard myself as a very seasoned and well-versed traveller, the issues surrounding permanent emigration are more involved than either a business or pleasure trip (no surprise there).

We had looked at four possibilities: Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Greece.

Whilst each country had its own unique charm and attractions, they also had more than their fair share of issues as well and those who had given me the ".. grass is always greener ..." line were,in some ways, quite correct. I spent some time in correspondence with people who had left the UK for the Oz/NZ. In three of these cases, they were trying desperately to move back to the UK and were finding it very difficult to do so. Their experiences - coupled with my own - convinced me that an antipodean life was not for me or my family.

That left Canada and Greece. Having worked in Greece for a number of years, this would still be an easier place in which to live as it is part of the EU. However, it is just as easy to buy property in some beautiful part and become a temporary recluse as it would be to stay put. That left Canada which is still an enigma for us. It appears to offer so much, but the indirect taxation is steep and the locales are simply too diverse to make such a life-changing decision without actually living the life there for a longer time than a holiday period.

We decided - and 'yes' it was a family decision - that for the immediate future, we would stay in the UK. Not because it is some kind of shining beacon, but because it is easier to deal with the things you know than those that you don't.

We all detest what Labour had done to this country, most especially to "Family Values"; and the duplicity shown by Tony Bliar and his dispicable wife confirms how amoral this government really is. However, the world is bracing itself for another crisis in the financial markets and right now, extending finance and stretching budgets is neither prudent nor recommended. Maybe we'll see what happens in 2009/2010 but for now, you're all still stuck with the SHARK! Sorry!

SHARK!

It would be difficult for me to decide where, lived at same address for 23 years. Not seen much culture as usual holidays have been typical spanish and greece resorts apart from going to egypt twice.

This country is supposed to be full of proffessional law people so why do I see no end to Relaxed punishment for really bad offenders? I heard a woman got locked up due to her not picking up after her dog in a park and got a criminal record for it!

Yet more extreme cases get a slapped wrist and a short spell of community service if that. There seems to be harsher punishment for small things and little for major crime is it just me thinking this or maybe its because there is too much paperwork for Law and order to be bothered with.

The major problems with this country are drugs, guns and crime in general but you dont hear about a police teams patroling and securing crime hotspots and seem powerless to stop gangs.

Whats with all these chavs have they looked in the mirror??

Also if someone breaks into your house you can be prosecuted for attacking them if it wasnt a moment of self defence. Yet in america if someone breaks into your house you can shoot them or whatever you wish.

True story, do you remember the farmer that went to prison for shooting at 2 burglars 1 died one got shot in leg.

The farmer was sent to prison and the burgler that was shot in the leg tried to sue the farmer for inability to work. Yet if I remember rightly the burgler didnt work and was full time thief. Luckily the press caught him riding a bike and photo evidence dismissed his claim.

If you dont follow the law in extreme case, you shouldn't be protected by it.

In a HDTV to PC age with the added benefit of freeview the TV licence should be scrapped I never watch terrestrial channels anymore so why am i paying for it?

I would love to try living in Japan the technology and culture would be an eye opener. Has anyone here been and would they recommend it?

To be honest i would go to somewhere like New Zealand... Beautiful scenary, no fataly dangerous animals etc etc

The UK -

Good points -
CCTV - saved a friends life, and if you haven't done anything wrong why complain?!
Proud to be english as most musical icons of the 20th and 21st century came from here! The Beatles, The Stones, Queen, Led Zepplin, Deep Purple, Genesis, Sabbath, Iron Maiden to name a few (granted I'm clutching at straws and im a bit of a metal head!)

Bad Points-
Chav mentality,
Hooliganism,
House prices,
Tax,
Childhood Obesity,
Drug problem
Gun Problem
Low Wages
Politcal correctnes
Terrible Legal System

there is not a lot to keep me here apart from partner, family and bands i play in!

I would LOVE to be rich enough to move to Andora... Or Monaco..
Finland would be fantastic if it wasn't for the tax.

Hi

My friend and her husband took early retirement and moved to Lankawi Malaysia 4 weeks ago. They sold 2 businesses, house, everything, and went with one suitcase of clothes which got lost during the journey. They had already bought 2 acres of land and had a bungalow built on it, with plans to build more bungalows to rent/sell. They have now bought another plot of 3 acres of mango trees, which will give them an income. They love it there, everything is cheaper, weather is hot, and the cities are modern.

They want me to go and live there, but I am not so sure. Yes I am totally sick of the government taking every last penny that they can get off me. I have been working since 1964, but I have enjoyed my work, and will continue to do a bit part time well after retirement age in 18 months time.

But, there are things I like about this country. The seasons, the golden colours of the falling leaves in the autumn, spring time and getting out in the garden, and wildlife, the birds hedgehogs and frogs in my garden. Walking my dog, spending an hour or two in my local library, getting in my car and visiting friends, cosy pubs with log fires, there's loads of good places to go in this country. I haven't a lot of money but I am very rich in other ways. I balance the negatives with the positives and some of the simplest things give me pleasure. Don't waste time yearning for a dream that may never happen, if you're going to go, just do it, and take responsibility for your own life. It's what is in your head that counts, open your eyes and see the wonder of life all around you.

I will probably have a holiday with my friend in Malaysia, just to see what it's like, but if it doesn't tick all the boxes, I will be happy to stay here.

Ilona

Good evening Shark.

I have recently arrived in the UK from Australia.  I have been here for about 10 months now and must admit I have been having a great deal of fun.  I do object to reading about migrants (me) that are overloading the housing, NHS and schools - all I can say from my behalf is that the agency I work for provide housing, i don't have kids and I work in the NHS.

While i can certainly see the validity of what you are saying, i don't necessarily believe that any countries are any better, maybe just a few years behind getting to where the UK is now.  I came here because the grass was greener, I was struggling to pay my mortgage on a single income, food was getting more and more expensive, as are bills, and there is more potential of a career progression here than in Australia.

Australia does have a bit of a isolationist tendency, but mostly we interact more with Asia than Europe, because it is closer.  As a people, we don't tend to travel a great deal, mostly because internal flights are so expensive and anywhere else is a 6 hour flight.  We are a little country that tries very hard to be big.  We worship our sports stars, beat ourselves up about our treatment of indiginous people and think a relaxed lifestyle means we won't get attacked by terrorists.  We probably will become a republic within the next 5 years and have just chucked out a prime minister who has lead our country for 10 years because there was someone else to try.  It's not a perfect country but it is a great one!

(If you think about heading to Australia, Sydney is a hole!)

This is such a mementous decision - i hope that you make the best one for you and your family.

beausian

Hello, I am new to the forum but would like to say that I grew up in Canada and have lived in Britain for over 20 years.  I think that Britain is great for publicfootpaths, pubs and access to Europe and the people are lovely.  However, I agree that it is very expensive to live here and I fear getting old here. Canada, while being a beautiful country with nice people, can sometimes be very costly in terms of business rates and hydro costs.  People complain about the transportation in Britain, but the intercity trains in Canada can be very expensive. Most people drive, especially in the east and outside of the cities like Vancouver and Toronto, there are few cycle routes.  If I could choose a Canadian city to live in, I might choose Montreal for its multiculturalism and good restaurants, as well as proximity to skiing.

The only reason that I may contemplate leaving this country is the amount of teenage drunkenness, vandalism and threatening behaviour in my town.

If I could choose a European city to live in, it might be somewhere in Austria such as Innsbruck.

=) Ta! Its 2 pin plugs

xsdev, I lived in Canada for 27 years.  There is no single cost of living there. Its very regional. For example the GST (VAT) is 6%, reducing to 5% in Jan 08. However each province except Alberta adds a provincal sales tax. For some regions that brings the total to 5% for Alberta, to 17% in Newfoundland. On average, Southern Ontario, west coast, and Alberta are all about 60% - 75% of the UK cost of living. The cost of the same size and specification house also varies greatly with where you are. £100,000 in Winnipeg will get you about 2000sqft detached 4 bed, attached double garage. The same in Calgary or Toronto will get you a 1 bed condo.

Canada too has its internal troubles from creeping PC, liberal controlled media, to mass immigration overwhelming infrastructure. Many of the cities are growing at massive rates. Calgary for example has added nearly 100,000 residents in the past 3 years. Housing prices there have tripled. There is also a lot of regional disparity. Under-employment in the petroleum producing regions and very high unemployment in the Atlantic region. There is also winter to contend with.

To anyone considering Canada , my suggestion is to 'test drive' the seasons first. I know far too many people that emigrated there only to run screaming after their first 9 month long winter. The same is true of summer in some regions. Toronto in the summer without airconditioning is brutal. (38c with 100% humidity is common) Apart from the Vancouver area temps can vary by 70c between the hottest summer day and the depths of winter. On the praries you can have a 40c change in 24 hours.