Regarding complaining:

Endowments did not become regulated until 29 April 1988. Some firms agreed to allow the Financial Ombudsman Service to look at complaints about advice given before this date on a voluntary basis, however, not all firms did. If the firm you are complaining about signed up to the voluntary arrangements, the firm will handle the complaint in accordance with the complaint handling rules, including telling you when they can refer you to the Ombudsman.

If the firm did not sign up to the voluntary arrangements, you can still complain to the firm - but the firm is not obliged to follow the complaint handling procedures. This also means that if you cannot resolve the complaint with the firm, them you will not be able to take the complaint to the Ombudsman

You can check if the firm you are complaining about signed up to the voluntary arrangements by phoning the Financial Ombudsman Service on 0845 080 1800.

You will receive around 80-90% of £4680 + any guaranteed bonuses - if my experience is anything to go by

Interesting reading, If im honest ive let this slip a little and should have complained earlier.

Is it to late to complain ?

I did try a couple of years ago but had no reply.

I aslo took out a endowment with Royal Life now Pheonix in 1984.

Ive also found a red alert letter from when the Company was Royal&Sun Alliance that says in around 2700 in shortfall.(any idea when this may have come wheat years was it RSA?)

Unfortunately the sheet i have found does not give a date when The RSA contacted me just the shortfall.

pay £20.53 a month and have done from November 1984,the plan matures November 2009

The latest value of the fund was£4680 sum assured plus £5291 bonuses.

Anybody know what i am likely to receive next November?

I pay 02

Well divided we fall, Imagine what we could do if only 5% of policyholders united!

Its a boring subject but the starting point is Resolution Phoenix PPFM. I've been offered a ridiculous small surrender value. so am contesting the formula they are using. According to the FSA we should be offered our Asset share. The formula they seem to working to is based on the sum assured . So I'm looking into why the differences. I know for a fact that my surrender value as been almost locked for a year, which seems stranged consider I have more than 20k of investments and each year I'm paying 1200 pounds.

Anycase have a look at www.agaphoenic.moonfruit.com for more information.

This is how surrenders values should be calculated I added some comments which may or may-not be correct

1. accumulating the premiums paid by the policyholder at the rate of return earned

(Add all the premiums you've paid it to date)


2. deducting all expenses, including taxes, attributable to the sale and subsequent
management of that policy;

You'll pay any taxes due and any undisclosed management charges. Also any outstanding fee to the person who sold you that policy


3. deducting amounts to cover the cost of payments in excess of asset share on
death or illness;

Pay for the life cover which was provided by the policy


4. deducting an appropriate contribution towards the cost of capital provided by the
shareholder or by external sources to enable the company to continue to meet
the objectives described in section 2.1.1 of our Principles or any higher regulatory

Another undisclosed amount which you'll pay towards the cost of shareholders for saying they support the business even if they never did.



5. adding or deducting any differences between the amount paid on the early
termination of policies and the estimated assets shares of those policies at that
time (only for years prior to 2002);

Can only imagine that since asset share value is only work out a couple of times each year if they think that the fund value has reduce in this period then a deduction will be made

6. deducting appropriate amounts to cover, in full or in part, the cost of guarantees

You'll pay again for the sum assured

and options provided to policyholders where these either are or have a chance of
being in excess of asset share;

Dont know whats this means

7. adding or deducting some of the business profits or losses which we determine
are attributable to that policy; and

Undisclosed sum again. If they have invested in a new business thats fails some of the cost is attributed to your share of the fund.

8. deducting the shareholder share of bonuses added to policy

You pay the shareholder another 10% of any bonuses you have accumalted . Again for doing nothing other than saying they will support the fund

What other product do you know that has so many different ways on taking money out of your savings.

So what do you suggest that we do about this ?

I too have been paying about £75 per month into WHAT for 22 years

They can't even give me any idea as to my potential payout in 3 years time

I am working on (hoping) to get a terminal bonus of around 20% - that is all that is keeping me paying my £800 per year at the moment

I asked for a Surrender value for my policy a couple of months ago and it was 75% of what I had paid in over the last 22 years - and you try to sell a Phoenix policy to one of these on-line traders - they don't want to know (at any price) - so we are stuck with a depreciating asset - with no way out of the situation - other than to stick it out to the bitter end and hope that a decent terminal bonus is paid ......

Your right paying Resolution Phoenix 100 pounds a month for 25 years only to be told its going to pay back less than i've been in is'nt right. So whats going on? Resolution Phoenix always seems able to get their slice ok. Someone said we probably be paing for mis-selling compensation thats the real reason why the fund doesn't paid out any of the profits. Looking at Poenix PPFM it looks like they are taking out money to paid compensation via filtering money off into excess funds. If this is the case maybe the FSA review on inherited funds will insist on this money coming out of the shareholders profits.

Eugene,

What makes you think that you have suffered more than most ?

We have all suffered under this prolonged onslaught against our finances - with no improvement on the horizon

As a ex RSA poicyholder I believe I've suffer more than most. Do you know where I can get information concerning by how much the Wp fund grew by. Does Resolution Phoenix release for policyholders viewing.

regards

Eugene

Isn’t it amazing!!  I
was reading in Resolution PPFM document which says it doesn't use ‘with profit funds’
for any mis-selling compensation claims (And why should they after all its not
the policyholder who mis-sold the policy) The next paragraph then goes on to
read that this comes out of the excess assets funds!! So where does this excess
assets fund come from? Nearly all from the policyholder’s with-profits fund!!
So it seems the policyholders are funding the compensation of mis-selling!!
Surely this should be coming out of Resolutions vast profits that it just
recently announced.

Its about time the policyholder was given a more transparent
fairer deal.

Its simple Resolution underpaid the policyholders by
reducing the bonus. Then transfer money this so called excess money out of the with 'profit
funds' into the excess asset fund. (Allowed under FSA regulation)  This money can be used by Resolution in the form of excess assets to fund capitial purchases, compensation claims and so on. The
with-profts fund acts like a big cow ready to be milked by everyone

 
Here are some other ways Zombie companies eat into the with profit funds

Payment to Resolution management Service LTD     

Investment Account Services

One of Activities and Developments

Policy Administration services

Investment managers

Commission paid to intermedries

Sales Marketing

Guarantees for life cover

Sum assured guarantees.

IT Costs 

This list goes on, so simply everyone earns a  nice living
out of our money except the policyholders.

I have an endowment for £27000 and the last 2 years have only been a bonus of   £13.00

this is on a 25year plan taken in 1988 The projected shortfall is between £9790.00and £11390.00

 

I have emailed the Sunday Telegraph for confirmation of this ...

Will post the response here

We have a Sun Alliance/Royal Sun Alliance/Phoenix endowment - taken out early 1987 – maturity date 2012.

I was flabbergasted on Sunday morning when I read Emma Simon’s article in the S.Telegraph and by Sunday evening had already decided how I would be spending this unexpected ‘bonus’!! However, on looking at this more closely I believe this bumper terminal bonus refers only to Phoenix Assurance Policies (closed in the late 80s) and not to original Sun Alliance/Royal Sun Alliance Policies.

Sorry to disappoint - I hope I’m wrong – but I don’t think so.  Good news though for holders of the original Phoenix policies.

Pigs don’t fly - only the witches tonight!!!

 

 

I agree - can someone please confirm whether this Emma Simon is on a different planet ?

Although - this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/04/02/cmendow02.xml&page=2 also points towards the same idea - the numbers of Phoenix policy holders is down to 1,700 - so the spoils are to be split between fewer of us...

"Pearl" - this is new to me - how are we supposed to trust a company who sells OUR future without even telling us ?

 

"Emma Simon reports that a 25 year £50 a month Phoenix policy maturing this year will pay out - wait for it - "a staggering £350,244 - equivalent to a return of more than 20% a year".  "

 

If that is true then I really will believe in flying pigs ( and pink elephants) That dreadful Phoenix / Resolution company has been running down endowment policies continually slashing both annual and terminal bonus ever since it acquired the funds. My own endowment looks set to achieve between £32 and £35 k and no more when it matures in Nov 2008.

Anything above that I will consider a bonus but come on - £350,000 ?? has someone added too many zeros here?

 And what about the imminent takeover of Resolution  by another Dracula sorry Zombie Fund company - Pearl? If anything they are even worse than Resolution. GAWD help us!

 

 

 

 

Twee - you need to see today's Sunday Telegraph - it is very good.