Dear All,

Hope somebody is able to help!

I have today received a bill for £1300 from a debt collection agency relating to a property I lived in from 05/2005 to 04/2007 on behalf of e.on.

I moved into the property in May 2005 and immediately changed over to a British Gas dual fuel account. I then set up my Direct Debit to them and paid Powergen's closing bill for the Month or so of gas / electricity we used until it officially switched over to BG. I then paid BG for nearly two years before we moved house without any more communication from Powergen. I ported my BG account to the new house where I continued to receive both electricity and gas on a dual fuel account until we moved again.

I have called BG and they have no record of me paying Gas at the first property, just a record of electricity and then a record of me paying both electricity and gas at the second property. This is simply not the case I have a clear memory of the conversation I had with BG when I switched to them back in 2005 because of the extra discount offered for dual fuel. I can even remember receiving paper bills for this too.

Unfortunately I recently shredded all the bills from this property because they related to charges from over 4 years ago! (Which I now regret). I was told by the 'ug' at the debt collection agency that it is my responsibility to prove otherwise as they will continue to pursue me for the £1300 owed.

Surely I can’t be expected to pay this bill from all this time ago, can I?

Thanks in advance!

Julian123:

I have called BG and they have no record of me paying Gas at the first property, just a record of electricity and then a record of me paying both electricity and gas at the second property. This is simply not the case.......

.......Surely I can’t be expected to pay this bill from all this time ago, can I?

It's worrying when this happens but there is no place for your "this is simply not the case" attitide. BG have said one thing, E.ON another and instructed a DCA. Their records may or may not be right but unfortunately you have destroyed yours. You need to obtain all your records but specfically including bills for the period using £10 Subject Access Requests to BG and E.ON. If you have lost your bank records you need to do the same for your bank. Yes the cost is mounting up but it will be money well spent.

Meanwhile dispute the issue with the DCA in writing by recorded delivery. The DCA remarks about responsibilty are completely wrong. Somebody will be along soon hopefully with details of how to deal with the DCA.

The answer to your last question can't really be answered at this stage because this is an alleged debt, not a bill. However if it turns out you weren't billed for 4 years then its possible you won't have to pay, but that issue you will need to prove. First fight the debt issue.

Hi Julian,

Your question isn't a simple one to answer without a lot more infoamtion I'm afriad but I cna say that the chances are likely that there are things that can be done regarding the balance.

The first thing we need to do is get a handle on the specifics of the situation. I would ask for copies of all statements from both British Gas and Powergen/E.on from that start to the end of the accounts. Once we have these look to see excactly what and how you are billed. Things to look for intially from the Powergen/E.on are any references to final bills, do they cover both gas and electrcity and what dates. From the british Gas bills we'll be looking for what fuel/s they are actually billing you for.

It's possible that while you requested British Gas take over both fuels they simply didn't for one reason or another.

In the meantime I would also ask Powergen to place a hold on the account while you look into the claims. If all goes to plan the DCA should stop contacting you (may take up to 14 days form your contact with them). But it has been known for contact to continue, they'll claim they're acting on the best interest of their clinet but it ultimately comes down to them wanting their commision for getting you to pay the bill.

Once we're able to see what and who are billing for what we can then consider what's best to do moving forward. At this stage there's just not enough infomation.

A further thought, to speed thigns up you may be able to register for internet access to both these accounts, and view all previous bills sent to you. The accounts still exsist even if there's no on-going supply and this might make retrieving the infomation you need quicker.

Post back when you have the bills or access tothem and we'll go from there.

Thanks, have checked online and HSBC have removed all statments going back before 2009, i'm assuming to limit customers access to viewing bank charges! will get a letter off to the DCA in the morning, thanks again for your help

i will also try and get internet accounts for both in the morning and post back, thanks

Julian123:Thanks, have checked online and HSBC have removed all statments going back before 2009, i'm assuming to limit customers access to viewing bank charges! will get a letter off to the DCA in the morning, thanks again for your help

Stop assuming and fight this as a military campaign!

If you use a £10 SAR HSBC must provide 6 years worth of statements.

At this stage i'd recommend holding off on the SAR's to your bank and suppliers, but definately be prepared to move forward with this. The suppliers hould provide the infoamtion without too much trouble as they'll be keen to recover any monies owed.

Your energy bills will record what payments you have made (so initally no need to check these off agianst your bank records). If thigns don't add up after this then by all means send off the SAR's but you might jsut be able to save yourself £30 (or part thereof) first.

OK, sounds sensible. i have e-mailed a PDF letter to the DCA (see below) this evening and will be contacting E.ON in the morning to get a log on, i can't see this being a problem as for the last 18 months i've been an E.ON customer (not for too much longer). thanks again

Dear Sir / Madam,

Re: Your letter dated 4^th Aug 2009 with your reference ************

With reference to the above I would like to formally dispute your Final Notice. For the period detailed I was supplied by British Gas and at no point was I contacted by either E.ON or Powergen during or since.

I switched my account from Powergen to British Gas in May 2005, the same month I moved in to the property. The last and only communication I have had with Powergen in the last 4 years was receiving a closing bill in May 2005 from Powergen which I duly paid.

I will be contacting E.ON on Friday 7^th August 2009 to put a hold on this account and get this matter resolved.

Yours faithfully

I gained an account this morning to log into E.ON and see all the bills and correspondence regarding this property however when I did get in there was nothing to see. It simply said that the account had ended and that there had been no correspondence in the last 3 months.

I have this morning contacted the pipeline supplier (GTC Pipelines) who are responsible for the physical pipes and keep all records of the Gas carries to properties in this area and they have confirmed Powergen did supply the property for the period. as far as i was aware (no corespondance from Powergen E.ON and confirmation from BG that i was Dual Fuel customer) this wasn't the case until today over 4 years later.

The gentleman at GTC put me in touch with Consumer Direct who have opened a case under the 'Back Billing Code' and recommended i write to E.On asking them to investigate the mattler under this code of practices. i now wait to hear E.On's responce to the following e-mail:

Dear E.ON,

Re: Your ref: 012*****************

I write to you with reference to the above property for which you claim I owe you £1207 for a period from May 2005 to April 2007. I would like to formally request that you put this account on hold and investigate this matter under the back billing code.

From the point I moved into this property I changed supply for both Electricity and Gas to a British Gas Dual Fuel account. For this period and subsequently I was and have never been contacted by Powergen to notify me otherwise.

Since 12/2007 to current I have been an E.ON customer at my current address and have never been contacted regarding the above matter. I have today registered a complaint with Consumer Direct (Ref 1*******) who will be assisting me in getting this matter resolved.

I kindly request you reply to this e-mail within 10 days.

Yours Faithfully

Julian123:

Doesn't look as if you need that much support, other than moral support, from this forurm, you are doing all the right things.

As I hinted in my first post if it's a billing issue it's possible you won't have to pay, however first and foremost it's a "debt issue" at the moment.

I would suggest that in your communication with E.ON you make it explicitly clear you expect the debt reference to the DCA to be stayed pending the final outcome of the investigation.

Kramxel:

At this stage i'd recommend holding off on the SAR's to your bank and suppliers,

That's a perfectly valid view, however since the process may take up to 40 days it may be better to get moving now rather than to be playing catch-up later.

They have responded with the following:

I understand you have a query relating to a bill you have recently received from us.

I have investigated your account and can see that the first contact we have received for this account is when your landlord sent through a copy of your tenancy agreement on 10 June 2009 advising us that you had moved into the property from 11 May 2005 up until 30 April 2007.

It is the responsibility of the occupier to notify the suppliers that they have moved into the property.

Please be aware under the billing code we are not at fault where we have not been informed that the property is occupied.

The balance owed on the account is based on estimated readings, as no readings have been provided the bill owed on the account is correct one owed and payment in full is required the full amount.

***************

i contacted Consumer Direct again who suggested i e-mail the following:

I write to you with reference to the above account number and the recent e-mail communication. I have contacted consumer direct again and they have recommended I e-mail you directly to get this resolved.

Further to my e-mail sent this morning (7^th August 2009) dealt with by ****** I would like to respond with the following points:

I was in contact with Powergen to notify them I had switched from their supply to British Gas in May / June 2005 following receipt of a welcome letter from Powergen.

At no point during the two years l lived at this address did you come back to me to state otherwise.

I am a current E.ON customer and have been since 12/2007 and have not enjoyed receiving a Final Demand from a Debt Collection Agency when you have all my contact details and have always paid you on time and in full.

I still dispute these charges under the ‘Back Billing Code of Conduct’ and look forward to hearing from you within 7 days.

**************

i will post their response in due course!

Julian123:

I think their response is largely b*ll*cks, though it's good b*ll*cks because they have somewhat shot themselves in the foot.

Firstly your query is about a defaulted account not a bill. They have admitted they have taken little action between the previous customer leaving on or around May 2005 until managing to extract a rental agreement from the landlord in June 2009. (and instructing a DCA only a few weeks later).

Secondly they say it is the occupiers responsibility to notify the supplier. More disingenuous b*ll*cks. In a case where a gaining company is contacted (as you claim) it's the gaining company's responsibility to contact the losing company.

FWIW I think this was a very predictable and superficial response to "back billing" as an opening gambit (a mistake IMHO) when the issue until established is something much more serious (and complicated). Nobody alleged their systems didn't indicate that, the issue is why and the response offers little explanation.

I would be wary of their use of the word "query". I suggest you obtain their Code of Practice on Complaints and ensure your communication comforms because you may wish to invoke the energy ombudsman facility which kicks in 8 (or 12?) weeks after first submitting a complaint.

There is nothing in the response which excludes the possibility of a bungled switch by BG, so there is still that to consider. Anyway I've given my advice on SAR.

Quibbling over techicalities isn't really going to help call it what you will disputed bill disputed account, aside from their dictionary terms it all boils down to the same thing for this individual.

Looking through the infomation presented I would make the assumption that the account has been in the landlord's responsibility for some time, and the landlord has done very little until recently. This would account for the OP not recieving a bill until recently. There are a number of reasons this could be. The landlord could simply not have been bothered, he could have had a letting agency who should have been managing the account or several other things. However it's come about the landlord has presented a tenancy agreement clearly showing periods of responsibility. If my assumption is correct sadly you cannot blame the supplier for this.

I'm having to agree with the representative from e.on it most defiantley is the responsibility of the new teant or new occupier to inform suppliers they moved in, as last I checked the crystal ball is nothing more than a childs toy and as yet not every property is wired up to a coverty surveilance system.

In an ideal world the landlord would provide or letting agency will provide the teant a list of who supplies what with contact details, again falling back to my earlier assumption it would be a relatively safe bet that the landlord/letting agency didn't do this.

When British Gas took over any supply at the property they would have sent you a sales infomation pack. This contains your details, the plan you have signed up for on what fuels, details fo your payment method and the terms and conditions that apply to you. I'm assuming you didn't read this through thoroughly, as this would have been a key indicator as to what is going on. If as you say British Gas never applied for the second fuel there would be no contact with the "losing supplier".

Now moving on to something a little more constructive. On the value of the infomation you've presented. E.on have rightfully supplied you the energy you have consumed and that energy needs to be paid for, there are no grounds for them to consider reducing the balance so it must be paid in full. i would assume however that givne the circumstaces they would be willing to set up a suiable repayment plan. If I were in your shoes i would now be speaking with British Gas to find out why they did not act on your intial instruction, you may be able to secure financial compensation to help with your e.on balance. In addition I would also be speaking with my landlord and finding out why it's taken him nearly 4 years to inform the supplier he wasn't responsible.

This is all hinged on weather my assumption regarding an account being active for your landlord. you should consider requesting a SAR (Subject Access Request) from e.on to confirm or disprove this assumption. You will have to pay £10.00 and the request cna take up to 40 days to be completed. You will be presented with a copy of every piece of infoamtion e.on has about you, recieved from you, or on your behalf as well as what they have sent. I beleive they may also have date and time stamps where relevant to show a clear time-line for you.

If there is not a reference to any activity prior to the 10th of June 2009 then your supplier is absolutely correct in the situation and my assumption would appear accurate, if this is not the case then at east we'll have more infomation to build a case on.

Whatever you decide to do let us know how you get on.

Kramxel:

Quibbling over techicalities isn't really going to help call it what you will disputed bill disputed account, aside from their dictionary terms it all boils down to the same thing for this individual.

Some good points but not the one above. Receiving a "bill" from a supplier is not the same as receiving a demand from a Debt Collection Agency not having for whatever reason had any previous contact from a supplier the OP is allegedly a current customer of.

Anyway this is a consumer forum not a trade or industry forum so obviously it' going to be slanted in the customer's favour.

Hi, Thank you for your comments, I will be contacting both BG and EON with a SAR on monday because i am 100% certain of the following:

I had many conversations with BG about them supplying both gas and electricity, (also i'm sure I had bills documenting this but without them I could be mistaken due to the length of time that has now passed). When i spoke with BG on Friday they said they keep telephone records for 6 years which would mean these conversations were recorded - will this help?

I contacted Powergen to notify them that BG were my supplier after recieving a letter from them wecoming me to my new property shortly after moving in.

With regards to the property there was no agency involved other than the introduction agency, i paid the Landlady direct. and was the second tenent in this new build property (built 2004).

will of course post more updates next week