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SAR Template

Last post Fri, Feb 19 2010, 3:16 PM by marketeer. 47 replies.
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  •  Fri, Feb 19 2010, 3:16 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    Seems that this is pretty standard practice by these leeches.I got an identical phone call offering the same "deal".They said they would accept a greatly reduced monthly payment or alternatively a lump sum to wipe the debt out (reduced by app 70%).They then went on to say that my credit rating would not be affected.I think this is fairly conclusive proof that they do not have the original CCA documents and would therefore be wasting their time trying to enforce the debt.This most likely applies to the majority of customers that have been fleeced by these slippery devils.
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, Sep 18 2009, 7:56 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    Thank you Stubie, I think you posted something similiar about defaults and I 've not been able to find it. It's good to have hope, everything was beginning to sound like defaults were unavailable.

    You've made my day a whole lot brighter!

    unavoidable-not unavailable, imagine the unroar if we were denied our defaults

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, Sep 17 2009, 9:45 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    Hi All,

    The signature on the card is a red herring, the debtor signature must be on the agreement, and not elsewhere.

    There have been successes in obtaining injunctive relief from defaults where an agreement has been declared unenforcible. You might want to keep an eye on the Chester court referrals to the London Commercial court as some of these relate to the registration of defaults following a declaration of unenforcibility.

    The CCCs claim it is their right as the debt still exists whereas the debtors counsel claim that this is sill enforcement since the debt refers to an agreement, the agreement is unenforcible so, naturally, any subsequent activity which relates to the CCA 1974 following the declaration constitutes enforcement.

    These cases will be heard in October so this will give direction to the courts - Commercial court rulings establish precedent - so some clarity should be derived from these cases, at least we all hope so.

    S

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Sep 17 2009, 7:30 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    well I've not heard that one before, how would they get all that on a little card?I found Mercers polite and just told them I counldn't talk to them while FOS was dealing with it and they passed it back to BC quite quickly.

    I heard from FOS yesterday about M&S, they phoned to discuss the complaint. M&S could only provide application forms -no elements of an agreement at all. FOS do not get involved with any of that stuff, they don't look at enforcabality just the 'spirit' of it all. I borrowed the money, I should pay it back and it was a question of how. M&S will now accept reduced payaments, freeze interest and refund interest and penalities back to April which is what I asked for-they will however put a default on my credit file which was something I really wanted to avoid(and FOS supports them on this). I now have the chose and accepting the default until it slips off the radar in 6 years or go with one of 'those' companies.Huckster doesn't seem to think this will do any good and I can see his/her point, I wish I had a crystal ball!

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Sep 15 2009, 10:02 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    Tangents are good, it gets all the info out, please keep us updated with your progress.

    Further to my SAR I received a letter from Mercers yesterday whom claim that by signing a credit card that is an executed agreement.. (I didn't agree that I had signed anything).

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Mon, Sep 14 2009, 8:20 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    Sorry if I went off at a bit a tangent. I did report Barclaycard to FOS and it did make a difference to DCA Mercers and when Scotcall called, they sent it back to Barclaycard. Now Barclaycard has passed it to Calder Finance who seem to ignore all this and FOS say they are entitled to continue debt collection 'activities'.

    My original point about MBNA was-that it seems this cccs will not take us to court and rely on DCA s to use pester tactics, so if we don't care too much about our credit file we should beef up our defences with regard to DCAs....or....chance it with one of 'those' companies who claim they can sort it all out.I don't know how it will all end up yet, fingers crossed.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Mon, Sep 14 2009, 10:01 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    Thanks all for your input..

    Right now I think the best solution for a "quieter life" is to contact the office of fair trading and report my complaint, what for response from barclay card and try to get the to negotiate much lower repayments and for them to freeze the interest? Which they have until now refused to do...

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Sep 13 2009, 7:27 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    I'll have to get back to you on that one, these companies send you a mountain of paper. Perhaps someone can help me out here, is it something to do with the Data protection Act and info being passed to a third party or debts being sold on?I feel I've read the guidelines somewhere.

    Anyway, for me there's no turning back, I've signed up for this . I guess if you are right, it will be a case of fending off the debt collection agencies with harrassment letters.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Sep 13 2009, 6:30 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    everhopeful:

    Luckily I am not in a position that I am being chased for debts, however, I have had some exposure to the problems, due a family member with a history of debt. Their experience is that it is worth offering a without prejudice' full and final' settlement offer. Following advice from a solicitor within the family, they had a £30k debt written off completely for £2k or £3k. At the time the company concerned was glad to get the debt off their books as they had been chasing it for years.

    Several years later they incurred more debts due to a business failure and this time after they were chased, did not offer an F&F as they were planning to move abroad. The debt has now been chased for more than 8 years, even though now statute barred. The debt is sold on continually by one DCA trying to stitch up another, after finding out the debtor has moved abroad. Unfortunately, my address was used for correspondence, so I have had to deal with letters and phone calls from the various DCA's. Over the 8 years period. the debt has been through the hands of about 12 DCA's.

    The point of this particular post, is that I have read posts on the CAG site, which would appear to suggest that often debts are not actually written off. The CC/Loan company or DCA, will often accept that collection of the debt cannot be enforced by the courts if the CCA is missing or there is a technical issue, but the debt does not disapear. Some of the DCA's write to people to say that they accept that debt payment cannot be enforced, so they have filed their papers. They then sell the debt on at a later date.

    People would appear to have posted on the CAG site to say that they have won, only to be chased for the debt months later by a different DCA. Also the CRA's would appear unwilling to remove the debt defaults from credit records, as they need the permission of the creditors.

    So my concern is that if you are paying for a service, they need to explain what the actual outcome could be i.e. the best result. Can the actual debt be written off by the court and an instruction to the creditor to remove any defaults from your credit record. Or are they simply saying that the court can rule on whether your agreement is enforcible or not and about whether any cost incurred can be recovered. If the debt is declared unenforceable, what legal steps can this company take to make the creditor write off the debt and clear the defaults.

    Without naming the company concerned, I think people would be interested in what they have said they can hope to achieve for you. Most people have read the warnings from the MOJ and others about these companies, so are dubious of handing over their money.

    Huckster

    • Post Points: 35
  •  Sun, Sep 13 2009, 11:15 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    There are no guarantees every case is different that is why there is a policy in place , you might like to look at CAG site, I think you will find quite a few. My guess is that when it's all over people just want to move on with their lives, I've found it all so exhausting that that is what I will do for a while at least.

    I didn't post it as an advert for these companies because if I had more stamina, I would certainly be doing it myself, I posted it to show the attitude of cccs and give a bit of an insight based on my limited experience. A little help in 'knowing thine enemy'.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Sep 13 2009, 9:56 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    everhopeful:

    I can't do this now because I have signed up with this company , the insurance policy for the' no win , no pay' has been purchased etc. The company will pursue them them through the courts for their legal expenses and cleaning up my credit file as well as writing off the debt.I wonder if Barclaycard are going to follow this route?

    What guarantee were you given that the legal case will be successful in cleaning up your credit file and writing off the debt?

    I have heard alot of talk from these companies but I have not seen any success stories while searching online. You would think that if someone had just had their debts written off, they will be mentioning this in online forums such as this.

    Huckster

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Sep 13 2009, 9:16 AM

    Re: SAR Template

    I'm going through the same process with Barclaycard, it's at the stage where it's been to Mercers and come back, now it's with Calders and I've also had a doorstep call from Scotcall. Such was my frustration that I have signed up with one of 'those' companies that advertise-more news as it happens.

    BUT-I thought this bit of info could be useful when trying to get a fuller a picture. When Abbey were taken over by MBNA last year they promptly put my APR up to 35%, I couldn't afford to pay them back or switch the debt so I tried to negiotate a lower rate, they more or less said we're charging you this because we can. So in November I went to one of 'those' companies and paid £25 for an assessment(to be followed by £95x4 monthly payments when it goes to court), they tell you not to use the card and pay the minimum payment which I did till April this year then could not afford it any longer.The company is just preparing the case to take to court after presenting it to a barrister. This is the letter I have just received from MBNA-

    ''Your MBNA account is currently xxx in arrears with an immediate payment due of xxxx. The account is six payments behind and will default in October. The outstanding balance will then be sold to a third party debt collection agency that will pursue the full amount.

    We have recently received a request for your original terms and conditions for section 78 of the credit consumer act. We must stress that the only time we will enforce your debt is if MBNA take you to court. We can advise that this will not happen,MBNA will default the account and sell the outstanding balance on.

    If you are in financial difficulty and are struggling to make your monthly payments we can assist you. MBNA can offer a reduced payment programme in which we freeze interest and fees. Alternatively we can look to settle your account for a reduced lump sum writing off the remaining balance.This will show as a partial settlement on your credit file for six years. If your would like our assistance, please call xxxx with a breakdown of your income and expediture.''

    I can't do this now because I have signed up with this company , the insurance policy for the' no win , no pay' has been purchased etc. The company will pursue them them through the courts for their legal expenses and cleaning up my credit file as well as writing off the debt.I wonder if Barclaycard are going to follow this route?

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Sep 11 2009, 7:51 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    MrsGuyan2B:

    What do you mean by nuclear, should I take this matter to court?

    The first option is to go straight for an ICO complaint, though you may end up being disappointed by the uselessness of our quango regulators. Nevertheless the process does apply some pressure on organisations which are not complying.

    Regarding you initiating court action, that's risky and of uncertain outcome if your bluff is called. On the other hand be prepared to robustly defend any case brought against you if you believe there is a defence.

    Unfortunately I do not think there is an easy resolution.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Sep 11 2009, 7:20 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    Hi

    The problems financial services companies like Barclaycard face is complicated. They would love to be able to take every debt to court to enforce recovery. But they face several problems in doing this. These are.

    1) Their records management system is probably rubbish. These CC companies were shovelling out credit cards at such a rate, that they could not keep up with storing all the records. Records management is a massive problem to all large companies. There is technology to scan documents but only in recent years, has this been reliable and cost effective. Not so long ago, documents were filmed and put onto microfilm or microfiche. But some of the records put onto these formats, were either not filmed properly, not all sides of documents were filmed or the viewing/print off equipment has not been maintained, so documents are no longer available. THEY ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT INTO BOXES AND SENT OFF TO AN OUTSIDE STORAGE COMPANY. BUT THE RECORDS FOR WHAT IS IN EACH BOX CAN BE PRETTY USELESS AS THOUSANDS OF APPLICATIONS COULD HAVE PUT INTO STORAGE AT THE SAME TIME. IF YOU WANT TO RETRIEVE ONE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT, YOU HAVE TO GET A VAN LOAD OF BOXES BACK AND IT WOULD TAKE MANY STAFF HOURS TO SEARCH. THIS WOULD COST ALOT OF MONEY ON TOP OF THE FEES TO OBTAIN/RETURN THE BOXES. AND THAT IS JUST TO FIND ONE AGREEMENT. WHAT IF YOU WANTED TO FIND 10 AGREEMENTS, YOU WOULD NEED A LORRY TO DELIVER ALL THE BOXES. Excuse the capitols but this is the main point. I think if the ICO investigated DPA issues regarding SAR's not being completed properly, because of poor record keeping, they would have to employ hundreds of extra staff.

    2) Without the original signed agreement( for pre 6/4/07 agreements) they are stuffed as they could not go to court to enforce if this was likely to be defended.

    3) This forum only reveals a very small portion of the number of people making such enquries about enforceability of their agreements. Barclaycard probably receive hundreds of letters every day, on top of all the other complaints and technical enquiries. So their staff dealing with these enquires are probably run off their feet. They must go home exhausted and with headaches, having to deal with the letters and phone calls regarding such issues.

    4) COST. If they are having to employ alot of staff to deal with the enquires, they cannot find the original documents and the account is in dispute, why would they want to add to this, if by keeping the debt they incurred further costs. THE DEBT WILL BE SOLD ON TO A DCA AND YOU WILL GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS FOR YEARS, UNTIL STATUTE BARRED. THE DEBT WILL THEN BE UNENFORCEABLE BUT WILL STILL BE CHASED.

    5) Give the pre 6/4/07 disputed debtors the runaround, p**s them off enough, so that some give up and pay. And at the same time devote more energy and resources to pursue those debts that you are likely to recover. The debts they can recover are those agreements entered into after 6/4/07 and those agreements made by internet where there is a full transaction record, which is most importantly a record they have and can produce to a court.

    So for mrsguyan she can look forward to not receiving the documents she has asked for and being chased for the debt, as it is sold on and on over many years to many DCA's. I have not seen any posts where a debtor has taken a creditor to court and proved their agreement is unenforceble, with debt/defaults removed. If there is a way of doing this, the legal companies that advertise that they can do this are keeping their methods a secret.

    Huckster

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, Sep 11 2009, 6:17 PM

    Re: SAR Template

    Hi Jalexa,

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread, I did request "all" information and for the avoidence of doubt am asking for the clarity that they do not have any permission to hold my personal details on any file and that no alleged credit agreement exists..

    What do you mean by nuclear, should I take this matter to court?

    I want a resolution with this matter.. All help greatfully received...

    X

    • Post Points: 35
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