Yes, it's not really a matter of them not knowing when to give up....it's more of a matter of them wanting to give up.

They only give up when all their intimidation has proved fruitless and they know they are wasting their time by attempting to obtain money they are not entitled to, at which stage they shift their focus of attention to some other poor and more vulnerable prey.

Burglars operate in a similar way. !

Cheers conman!!! i'm slowly getting there and this company deserves 10 out of 10 for harassment. There is no wonder people end up suicidal trying to straighten themselves out with firms like this in the system, they don't know when or how to give up and do not work to a decent time frame. Thank the good lord there are people like you and others on sites like these, it makes like a little easier.

Right -- In that case now you know for sure this CCA is enforceable you could offer a lower settlement figure as a full and final payment, but keep a record of whatever is agreed in writing. Sorry don't have a generic letter for this, so just make up a short simple letter offering your proposed figure as a full & final settlement, including all the relevant details.

Hi conman,

Its me again!! Lowell portfolio1 have now sent me a signed credit agreement out from capital 1.

It has been exactly 4 weeks ago i wrote and asked them to produce this document. is it possible to offer a lower repayment amount?. And do you have a letter with words to this affect or otherwise. They have sent me a total of 9 letters over a 4 week period re this debt.......grrrrrh. lol

Cheers conman i will keep u posted.

Hiya conman thanks for replying,

I haven't previously mentioned the moorcroft debt due to this being a ccj before i found this site and didnt think moorcroft could do what they are doing. It was for bt at the time i denied i owed them any money has i didn't believe i did, and instead of dealin with it there and then i ignored it. If i had have known i could've request this info i would have done this. With regards to payments i am able to make the ccj agreed payment of £5 per month but not the £10 as i am on a tight budget and sticking to it. Moorcroft have resorted to the bullying tactic and i wasnt sure who to ask for advice on the best route to take with them. Im so fed up wi em xx

thanks kerry

If you have a court order in place ordering you to pay £5 per Month then that is what you must pay, either until the debt is officially settled, or, the court changes the amount by making a "variation order", or sets it aside.(cancels it)

Moorcroft are not entitled to try and make you pay anymore than the court has already ordered, tell them to "spin on it", to obtain this permission they would have to return to the court showing an improved change in your financial circumstances and that is very unlikely, however, if they do attempt to, attend the court and explain to them the amount you have been ordered to pay is as much as you can reasonably afford.

Initially I bet you didn't defend this claim and Moorcroft would have obtained a "judgement by default," because you failed to defend the application ?.....you can still request that Moorcroft provide the proof of this alleged debt, even though a CCJ was awarded in your abscence.

Their continued failure to provide proof of the debt would allow you to apply and have the original court judgement "set aside," because it was obtained without legally valid proof that you actually owed the alleged debt........but In between though, you MUST pay the £5 the court has ordered, or you would be in default of the existing court order. !

Hiya conman thanks for replying,

I haven't previously mentioned the moorcroft debt due to this being a ccj before i found this site and didnt think moorcroft could do what they are doing. It was for bt at the time i denied i owed them any money has i didn't believe i did, and instead of dealin with it there and then i ignored it. If i had have known i could've request this info i would have done this. With regards to payments i am able to make the ccj agreed payment of £5 per month but not the £10 as i am on a tight budget and sticking to it. Moorcroft have resorted to the bullying tactic and i wasnt sure who to ask for advice on the best route to take with them. Im so fed up wi em xx

thanks kerry

Hi -- Which of the debts does the letter from Moorcroft relate to, have they provided a valid signed CCA to support this allegation or are you still waiting. ?

Which alleged debt does the CCJ relate to, there is no mention that you had a CCJ issued against you so far. ? If a CCJ has been made then you have to comply with the terms or ask the court to "vary the order" if you are unable to pay the original amount ordered.

Hello its me again,

I've been sent a threatening letter from moorcroft saying that they are going to take further action and get doorstop callers round has i have failed to come to an arrangement with regards to payments being made to them. I am at a loss of what to do has the account they are threatening action with has gone to county court and i have a ccj against my name for this and a £5 payment arrangement. I fell behind with 2 payments but then made a payment for £100 but they are now telling me they will only stop action being taken if i pay them £10 a month. Can they do this? and even though its gone to court could i also get a cca sent to myself regarding the debt or is this pointless. Sorry to be a pain.

Kezi1809:Also a letter i recieved yesterday from a catalogue says they have no signed agreement but sent me a copy of a blank agreement shall i send the same letter back to them also or is there another one to send. I feel quite relieved I can finally stand upto these bullies because they have had me in tears no end...

To the above irrelevant junk mail that they have provided, you need to send a copy of the letter below without payment, again all by Recorded delivery, remember no valid agreement = no valid legal right to collect the alleged debt.

..................................................... ...............................................

Your name address & date

Dear Sir / Madam

Account Ref No......

Re: my request under s77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

My request for a copy of my properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement remains outstanding.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter *Dated*. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into a disputed status.

My request remains outstanding as the form you sent was UNSIGNED. !

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE** and subsequently committed a criminal offence on **MONTH DATE**.

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully (Print name)

Also a letter i recieved yesterday from a catalogue says they have no signed agreement but sent me a copy of a blank agreement shall i send the same letter back to them also or is there another one to send. I feel quite relieved I can finally stand upto these bullies because they have had me in tears no end...

Cheers conman!!!!

On the letter where the name and address is at the top do i put mine on or theres.

Kerry :-)

This leads me to believe that neither are able to produce the necessary requested proof otherwise it would have already been made available, they are understandably trying for a lower full & final settlement because it's their only opportunity to manage to extract a payment of some kind. If you believe as I do then send them both a copy of the below letter again Recorded but without any payments, edit the dates accordingly.

................................................. ..............................................

Your Name & Address

Date

FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

Ref: ****************

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way.

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

These limits have expired.

As you are no doubt aware section the Consumer Credit Act states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.



Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counter-claim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

Pleas supply me with a copy of your complaints procedure in writing.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully (Print name)

Hi conman,

I've recieved 2 letters today 1 from lowell financial re cap 1 which says:

"Following your recent request to be provided with a copy of the original credit agreement in respect of the Consumer Credit Act I can confirm our client Capital One has requested that your credit agreement be retrieved from archive.

Once your agreement is retrieved you will be required to repay the outstanding balance in full.If deemed necessary, we may initiate legal proceedings which could eventually see your outstanding balance increase due to court costs and interest.

In an attempt to resolve this matter in an amicable way I would like to offer you a settlementto bring this matter to a close.

as long as payment is with us by 29/11/2008 I am willing to accept £613.60 as full and final settlement on your account.

If payment is not recieved within the time we reserve the right to proceed to collect full balance."

and the other letter is for o2 bill.

"we refer to previous correspondence regarding the above debt with Telefonica O2 UK Limitied, and are disappointed to note from our records that the balance remains outstanding.

We are prepared to assist you in clearing this debt by offering you the execeptional opportunity to settle on highly favourable terms.We are willing, without prejudice, to accept £85.34 in full and final settlement of this debt provided this sum is recieved at this office by 04/12/2008."

The original responce from the 1st letter was saying they had returned my file to cap 1 and now they have sent this letter but they had recieved my CCA request on the 17th November and still no sign of CCA, the other 1 has gone to another debt recovery agent and back to this one but I also have a letter to say they have returned the file to O2 now they are making out I have made no contact with them.

What shall i do has they are now out of the 14day period and still no CCA's for both accounts just polite threatening letters.

Please Help!!!!

Cheers you lil gem.