It certainly is, thank you. Not sure if it moves us on much unfortunately.

I was interested to see if it referred to any info. supposedly on the reverse of the form - which it doesn't (surprise, surprise!). This more or less confirms (to me) the two pages were never two sides of the same document, which would make it unenforceable.

Thw wording is most odd where it says "I have received a copy of *this* and agree to be bound by the MBNA Credit Card Conditions of Use".

What on earth is *this* referring to, the Conditions of Use??

This could be interpreted in two ways:

*This* is a copy of document you are signing and agree to be bound by the Conditions on the back.

Or, *This* is a copy of the document you've signed and the Conditions are somewhere else (supplied separately).

Anyway, the problem with this (and MBNA a very clever at this stuff) is proving the two pages were not either two sides of the same document, or at least present together when signing. Proving that would be critical to proving unenforceability. Without it you are struggling.

MBNA would be bound to offer the explanation that the terms & conditions were part of the signed document. A judge could well be persuaded by this IMO.

Hi

Is this any easier for you to read ?

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx103/richiewills68/AGREEMENT-1.jpg

On the face of it it does look enforceable, but I am suspicious that the reverse side looks far better quality than the front side and the reference numbers (bottom RHS both pages) are different.

I would be very uncomfortable challenging this document even though (knowing MBNAs trickery) I am certain it isn't kosher.

I'd also like to be able to read para 12 on the signature (agreement) page, if it refers to terms 'on the reverse' or elsewhere.

Hi

Finally got to do it........Can someone please take a look at these for me and let me know whether enforceable or not.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx103/richiewills68/REVERSE.jpg

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx103/richiewills68/AGREEMENT.jpg

If anybody thinks that this is unenforceable could you please direct me to a draft letter or help me as to what I do next

Thanks everybody

richiewills68:Sorry but I can't figure out how to insert the scanned document......doh....how thick am I

Not thick at all. You can't embed images in this forum. Do as 'termination' says and post a link.

First open a free account with the likes of http://register.photobucket.com/ then upload your scanned images onto their server.

Afterwards, copy the link for the required image and paste the link into your post you wish to make on here.

richiewills68:Hi All Can somebody help me please, MBNA have sent me a signed copy of an agreement, If I was to scan it and post it on here could somebody please have a look at it and say whether it's enforceable or unenforceable. Many thanks

No problem .. I'm sure someone will advise accordingly.

You could sent MBNA something like this (edited to suit):

I refer to the above matter and your failure to supply ldocuments (or whatever the alleged failure is) in response to my s78 Consumer Credit Act Request or to provide a true copy of a properly executed credit card agreement.

We appear to be at odds in this matter, and clearly you remain in default of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on this matter.

The original properly executed credit card agreement is the document that you would need to produce in support of any county court action against me and the same document that I would make a court application for you to produce if you failed to respond to such a request under Civil Procedure Rules prior to my seeking to commence proceedings against yourselves.

It would therefore seem to me to be entirely in line with the overriding principles of the CPR for us to make every attempt to settle matters outside the court.

In furtherance of this objective therefore, I would suggest that this matter can be disposed of without further delay by you allowing me to inspect the original properly executed credit card agreement. Thus the matter can be resolved one way or the other.

I can think of no valid reason, if it is your sincere desire to have this matter dealt with without further delay, why you should not accede to this request. Since clearly if you satisfy me that you do have a properly executed and enforceable agreement then I can immediately enter into discussions with you with regard to discharging the said debt, which is surely what you are trying to achieve!

If however it is the case that you do not possess a legible properly executed agreement then it would be better for all concerned for you to admit to this fact now and then we may be able to negotiate a mutually acceptable outcome.

I would remind you that whilst this account is in dispute you are constrained by s78(6) of the Act as to what enforcement action you may pursue, which includes the issue of default notices demanding payment. You should consider this letter as a reminder notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act (1998) to cease processing, with immediate effect, any data in relation to this account, both within your own internal records and records with any third party agencies, that may cause substantial damage or substantial distress to me or to another.

To sum up, I am not obliged to make any further payments to you until you provide me with a copy of a properly executed agreement. Should you not have a properly executed agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me. If you do have a properly executed agreement there is no reason why you should not allow me sight of it in order to resolve this dispute.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and I look forward to your reply in the first instance but definitely within 14 days from receipt of this letter.

If you haven't already done so you should also make a s.78(1) (Consumer Credit Act) application to MBNA for your CCA. This costs £1.00 and is due back to you within 12 days (+2 days postage allowance).

After that time the creditor is in default of the Act if they don't comply and cannot enforce until they do comply.

Not sure how this would sit with your debt management co., but without a signed valid credit agreement for the account MBNA cannot obtain enforcement in a court and you can stop any payments.

You will get hounded with threat letters from MBNA but without the agreement there is nothing they can do by way of legal enforcement.

Of course taking this action (stopping payment, not making the request) may goad MBNA into making more effort to recover the agreement from thier archives (if it even exists). If it then turns out to be valid you would have to make up any missed payments and might make them back out ofany existing arrangements.