No lender would lend on this basis at the best of times never mind now. If i had a client come to me in the same position, and i found a lender who would accept the case (which wouldnt happen), and i went against my better judgement and proceeded with the application, the FSA would be on me like a rash immediately, and i would be dealt with accordingly. It's not just a case of finding appropriate lenders, but prooving the advised mortgage is affordable, which it clearly isnt in this case. It is the same for a bank, no matter how good their relationship is with the client, this type of application is everything the FSA are trying to stop, and goes totally against the treating customers fairly initiative that was introduced.

The best advice your friend could have recieved in the above case was to wait until his income stream recommenced. I don't see how it is acceptable for people to have a go at brokers simply because we wouldn't touch this type of scenario with a bargepoll. sometimes doing nothing is the best policy!

Michael

R-S

No, R-S, unlike you I am not a nosey parker?! ;o)

There is no smoke and no mirrors. I am simply not prepared to breach a confidence to satisfy some ignorant nosey parker as to the exact particulars of a particular transaction of which I am aware.

Suffice to say, that until a short while ago there were probably a number of the smaller lenders in this land, the great UK, who would have and were still lending on the base facts such as I indicated, where there had been previously very long and successful relationships, which will no doubt at some stage in the future, proceed as they did previously, more or less.

And in answer to your question, I am not a Lender, but if I were so, my answer is definitely in the affirmative. A proven track record over many years is a lot more reliable than some high flying, fly by night who only stops long enough to be a rate tart or whatever the recent expression was.

So, my advice was, if you have a proven track record with a particular Lender, start there, although I doubt this will now still hold good, particularly if your smaller Lender has been swallowed by one of the bigger Financials, with their know it all, actually know very little, Actuaries, or Risk Consultants, upon whom some of the bigger financials, appear bent upon relying to their peril.

HIUC, As someone definitely game for thinking outside the box I took a particular interest in this thread must've missed it last couple of times I was on here...

From what you've said, it seems you are neither the mortgage applicant, the broker, or the lender, yet you know for sure that the borrower has openly declared both the redundancy and having no source of earned income, for a normal residential mortgage product and you appear to be 100% confident no collusion or fraud has taken place. What are you then a nosey parker?! ;o)

I'm curious as to why you wont name the lender and refer to ombudsman and watchdog as an excuse for not doing so? No-one on here knows who you or the applicants are so why the smoke and mirrors?

Your last paragraph relating to a Decision In Principle goes against everything above and as such there's no lender in the land that would lend (knowingly) on such a basis...well would you?

Nevertheless, the point I was making was that there is money and assistance out there, you have to go and find it.

Go and sound out your existing Lenders. That should normally have been a Borrower's first port of call, although obviously now somewhat diluted by the attractions of all the competing Lenders, low fixed rate or other offerings.

Try other financial institutions, from whom you may have other financial products.Try a Broker.

If you don't go out and seek you will never get.

But don't make multiple applications which will doubtless invariably all be turned down, leaving bad credit records marks.

An Application should only be made, once a Lender has indicated that an application will be favourably considered. All takes time and effort by the Borrower, but is surely worth it, in the long run?

Well Mr XX and mick12

Just shows how wrong you both are.

There is also absolutely no FRAUD, mortgage or otherwise by any of the Borrower(s) or the Lender(s) and it is extremely offensive that you should suggest such, just because you yourself(ves) have not been able to access or benefit from such an arrangement under present circumstances.

So far as I know in all the cases to which I referred each of the Borrower(s) has/have had a long-standing previous mortgage(s) with their Lender(s) for their current or other properties, for many years and presumably have built up a good and proven reputation for regular payments or whatever their respective arrangements are.

The trouble these days is that people are so busy being mortgage or card rate tarts they fail to build up that long-running relationship. So I suppose one thing balances out the other.

Cheap today and you get what you pay for, whilst the long-standing loyal customers have continued and have then eventually been repaid with loyalty from some Lenders.

One 'outside the box' option could be to put it in the name of a close reliative / partner that may want to help you. Its a huge commitment for them, but if its the only option then they may help. If you put that deposit down with a deed of trust via the solicitors, then the money is always yours. Due to the size of the deposit, the lender would most likely fast track the mortgage for the person named on it also.

Then for the remaining time in that mortgage, keep your slate clean and improve your credit history as much as you can...i.e. pay credit cards etc on time, no credit searches, make sure your on the electoral roll etc.

The above can be a lot to ask, and finding a parent / spouse that will do this under the cirumstances may be hard, so I think the only lenders that may be able to help would possibly First National or Chelsea. But again, speak to a local broker to confirm exact criteria etc.

Helpfucan,

there is no way anyone will get a mortgage if they have been redundant, and have no provable income. Redundancy pay will under no circumstances be used in deciding affordability either. If they have got a mortgage, i'd suggest that maybe they hadn't been totally honest with then bank. If they are simply staying with their current bank in the same property, many don't ask for revised information, and the customer can in fact select another deal with that lender by ticking a box in some circumstances. To purchase a new property is unthinkable, and as a responsible adviser, i would under no circumstances have recommended this to be done. I think you've read too many articles about advisers, written by people who have no idea of the industry.

I would also like to add that the case you mentioned regarding the redundancy with no new income wouldn't even be serviced by a self cert lender. Something doesn't sound right here at all.

Michael

Helpifucan,

You say you know of someone who managed to get additional borrowing from their lender after being made redundant with no new job of form of self employment to service the further borrowing (or even existing mortgage). You also say the lender was aware of the situation.

I would suggest mortgage fraud is being committed here by either the borrower/the mortgage adviser or both!!.

Yes, this is a normal residential Additional mortgage, not self-certified, applied for after the redundancy. The Lender knows of the redundancy and I have been asked not to disclose who the Lender is, at this point in time, as there are apparently some outstanding issues, which the Borrower may be taking up with the Ombudsman/Watchdog, on breaches of confidentiality.

However, the Lender is fairly well known but not one of the UK's biggest mortgage Lenders and is not Northern Rock nor Bradford & Bingley.

Although struggling, I understand the Borrower family are apparently servicing the mortgage debt from the remains of the redundancy payments, until either employment is found, or benefits come into play (which was I understand after 9 months unemployment, although this may have changed - maybe shortened, today (02 Sept 08), with some Government announcements, but not sure as haven't had time to check exactly what may have changed).

HelpIfUCan:

I also know of someone else who has just managed to get an additional Mortgage loan, at the regular interest rate, who was made redundant round about the same time, as above and has no new employment or self-employment as yet. Again this was from their existing or recently previous Mortgage Lender.

For a Buy To Let mortgage product sufficiently below LTV no problem and satisfying rental criteria - no problem..

but are you claiming this is for a normal Residential mortgage and it's not a self-cert? If so who's the lender?

I see what is written and yes Agents/Brokers can sometimes be the only route. However despite all the warnings of gloom I personally know at least 2 people who were made redundant January and February 2008. Both of these people, in the absence of finding replacement permanent employment, have set up doing bits and pieces, keeping a steady stream of income, not dissimilar to their previous income and both individually have in the last couple of months managed to get new or re-negotiated Mortgages, for new properties, with their previous Borrowers(s), at the rates advertised by each of their Lenders.

I also know of someone else who has just managed to get an additional Mortgage loan, at the regular interest rate, who was made redundant round about the same time, as above and has no new employment or self-employment as yet. Again this was from their existing or recently previous Mortgage Lender.

So there is hope, you really just have to try.

Not all Lenders use the same Underwriters and not all Underwriters use the same criterion, as set out above, fortunately, although there is some uniformity in many cases. That said, this is partly why we are in the mess we are in - worldwide, not just the UK and the US and parts of Europe, today.

Due to Underwriters, so called financial experts and the like not really understanding the fancy financial vehicles that various key wise guy people within the Banking and financial world have been selling to the rest of us. When all that these Banks and Finance Companies have been doing is falsely churning the cake taking huge commissions, whilst managing to provide an optical illusion that all was well in the financial world, when in fact all there was left was the skeleton of the cake. The substance of the cake paid out in huge commissions and bonuses for these perverted financial tricks!!!

Then it all fell apart!!!

Even if there is a good relationship with a bank, a mixture of missed mortgage payments and a lack of accounts will mean you will generally have to look away from the high street. I would also like to point out without this first year of accounts/tax returns etc, there is no way to confirm if the income is going to be similar to previous employment or not.

Your best bet is to speak with a broker who will help minimise what type of rate you will potentially pay.

Michael

Meo,

Like Gemma J and Mick suggested a whole of market mortgage broker is the way to go as they have access to every lender out there. The likelyhood is you will fit the criteria of a specialist lender who accepts self certification of income for someone self employed less than a year with an element of adverse credit. The rate will be quite high (around 7.5%-8.5%) but the fact you have a good deposit means at least you will be able to get the mortgage.

I think you would be wasting your time speaking to high street lenders as in today's climate they are only interested in lending to people who tick all their boxes which given your missed mortgage payments and recent change to self employment would not meet their criteria. However you could switch to a better deal in say 2 years when your situation has improved.

I'm an underwriter for a big mortgage company. We would only look at self employed applicants if they have proof of 2years accounts i.e an accountants reference or 2years tax calculation form (SA302 form). I'm not sure about other lenders. You would maybe have to get a self cert mortgage and the interest rates tend to be higher.

You may be asked to show proof of deposit - so a lender may ask to see bank statements showing the money built up.

With regards to the missed payments, you should get an experian report & take it to your financial adviser - this will help them place a mortgage for you.

Hope this is some help.

I don't think the above is necessarily so. It may be that a Broker can help, as sometimes, the Brokers seem to have cornered the market for loans to people with less than super perfect credit records and who don't have ridiculously high incomes.

However, if your income from self employment is the same or better than it was from employment and you can show that your self-employment is not likely to be terminated, a good Lender with whom you may have already built up a rapport, despite the hiccups - which in the end were resolved, you may be as well to stick with the Lender you know and see what they can offer you, before approaching a Broker.

Good Luck