I second what broooooce says, go straight for SAR (Subject Access Request) You will just be told they have completed their obligation with S77/78.

I have read somewhere on these forums that they don't have to provided you with the original at that stage, although an SAR may not get you your agreement either, (mine has never appeared).

Have you been managing payments up to now? There are some really intellegent people on her who can give you great advice, it's not an easy course to persue so only follow it if it is your only option.

I would advise though that it has been easy to negotiate with Barclaycard since obtaining the knowledge that they don't have a credit agreement. They now accepted reduced payments and have frozen the interest. Perhaps this could be more beneficial to you to?

Although some may feel that Barclays have got off lightly and are laughing at me, paying a lower amount is more affordable, freezing the interest helps the balance to go down, with no further adverse effect.

Yes Barclays should have a credit agreement for you and they don't for more than 50% of their customers, but there is no way that the banks/lenders will walk away without a fight.

I will try and find the SAR template for you. Good luck with your process.

Me

"Work for? Last time I checked we all own the banks!"

Apart from Barclays !!!

Brooooooooooce:

Just learn to ignore the negative posters - they all work for banks, credit card companies and insurers! There is plenty of postive advice and info here to counteract all the negative nonsense.

Work for? Last time I checked we all own the banks!

Hi mate. It seems your first experience of this forum has not been a very helpful one, but honestly its not normally like that. There are many excellent posters on here who will give you help and support.

If you haven't already done so you should submit a Subject Access Request to Barclaycard - I think that a s.78 request on its own is a bit of a waste of time. Mainly because lenders like Barclaycard (and many more) will send you anything and say it complies with their obligation under s.78. I dare bet I received the same letter and the same t & c from Barclaycard - they seem to just churn them out by the hundreds.

A SAR should show you (although its not 100% guaranteed) what documentation Sharkleys actually have. In my case the SAR produced a copy of a 17 year old application form which does not comply with the CCA and in my view (and others) it is unenforceable.

I've stopped making payments and have had plenty of phone calls chasing me for payment. It is still early days for me and where it will all end up, who knows! Jalexa is right in what he / she says. This isn't for everyone and you definitely have to weigh up the pro's and con's. There is is a ton of help on this forum and others (CAG is reallly good also).

Just learn to ignore the negative posters - they all work for banks, credit card companies and insurers! There is plenty of postive advice and info here to counteract all the negative nonsense.

Send a copy of the below, by recorded delivery.

................................................ ........................................

Your name address & date.

Account ref... XXXX XXXX

Dear Sir / Madam.

Thank you for your correspondence dated .... XX XXX

It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).

You have provided me a photcopy of terms and conditions and a copy of a unsigned agreement and I feel it is my duty to draw your attention to some serious flaws in your actions.

Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement (Not sending generic documents), a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

These regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

(a)Number of repayments;
(b)Amount of repayments;
(c)Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d)Dates of repayments;
(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

Nowhere on the generic correspondence that you supplied is there any reference to these terms. I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the agreement and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect.

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regs under s60 CCA1974

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in section 65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms. Since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading .

I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and the debt written off with a zero balance.

I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Yours Sincerely
_______________

print your name do not sign.

Thanks, but really asking what if any, letter I should send (template)

again, thanks

packard21:

I really am prepared to take this all the way, claiming everything and generally getting one over on them.

What would my next course of action be

Now that peace has broken out, FWIW its not easy to advise. The issue is not really whether there is an agreement but an "enforeceable agreement". Probably there is not an "enforeceable agreement" but there is 10 years of custom to demonstrate something.

If they have already defaulted a large debt then possibly a fight is worth it. If not then the certain consequencies of ruining your credit rating for at least 6 years may be a poor return. Only you can decide whether the consequencies are worth it, just as long as you understand that as far as the law is currently tested, the "enforceability" fight does not eliminate the debt owed.

To finish, if you have to ask what to do next, maybe its not yet the right time.

Hi braindeadave,

No problem - thanks for the apology. We've all been there (having a bit of a long day myself!)

Thanks,
Graeme

braindeadave - you're right, this is a public forum, but we also ask that you respect all members - regardless, full stop.

If you haven't already, you need to make sure you're fully up to speed with our content and community standards before you post - you signed up to them when you validadted your account. Put simply: Be nice. Keep it clean. Be legal. Stay on topic. No spam.

packard21 has asked a perfectly reasonable question. He's right - if you can't say anything constructive to help him and have no sympathy, I would've thought the simplest and best course of action would be to keep schtum.

You'll find - if you haven't already - that we're a positive and helpful community here. We do our our best to answer questions in a way that ensures people get useful, practical advice in a manner that treats them with respect - however tough that message can be to hear. I'm happy to say, I don't have to post messages like this much at all, but when they're required, it needs repeating: At the end of the day, civility costs nothing and all we ask is that members treat each other in the same way they'd like to be treated themselves. It's not a lot to ask.

Now, can we get back to the matter in hand? Thanks.

Thanks,
Graeme

This is a public forum, so i can post. To answer your question, i prefer to vocalise my thoughts as it takes less time.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere; a bit of back history. See, i'm a cynical person, and i've heard countless people moan about being chased for money, who were, quite frankly, either too lazy to do anything about it, or too stupid to open their letters half the time.

From my understanding, even if you do take it all the way to court (and it'll be a long process to get there), and get the debt (though you've only mention £3.16 worth) declared unenforcible by law, they will still continue to chase you for it. Debt collection agencys will play 'pass the parcel' with it for years. Better to try and negotiate lower payments, or speak to the national debt helpline if you're struggling.

If you have no sympathy, fine, dont post, or do you like to see your thoughts in print ?

Not thats its your business, but with an extra tight budget and a family to look after, by the time they chased the payment, nothing was left.

The first problem, well, with no actual agreemeent with them, is in my control, Just trying to find out what my next step is.

Like I said, if you have nothing to offer, dont post, its easy

But it's hard to be constructive when i really have no sympahy. The first problem is out of yours, mine, and everyone elses control. Credit crunch and all that.

The second problem you could have quite easily sorted out with them, when they first advised you of the oustanding.

excellent, very constructive.

Your very clever

Dropped limits and increased APR has happpened to everyone; get used to it, it's going to be here to stay.

Hounded for 2 weeks for £3.16? The only thing i'm surprised about is that it's taken you that long to pay that ammount!