Hi there - have decided to move from TT after a number of years of okay, but not brilliant service. We have them for phone and broadband and wish to move both.

We initially looked at Virgin media, but discovered that as well as their phone/BB package we would have to pay a BT line rental, which would also mean contacting BT and getting our line moved back from TT to BT first. I have to be honest at this point and confess I that I don't fully understand this, but AFAIK, the phone line we have is 'unbundled' (?), and run by TT not BT.

Okay, so the point is we want to change over and Virgin said that we needed to rejoin BT first for line rental. This I was not keen to do.

MAAF (despite the very odd name) seems to be pretty highly rated and good VFM and their site suggests that line rental is included in their package ("MAX Broadband and Talk Free £19.98 a month for the first six months and £24.98 thereafter") - so my initial question is this - if we do decide to go with MAAF, will we need to deal with BT at all? I have a VERY low opinion of BT after dealing with them when we moved to our current property and no wish to pay them any money, or have anything to do with them if I can avoid it.

Secondly, I went through the MAAF signup process as a 'dummy run' just to see how it all worked, and was asked for a MAC code - Virgin also asked for this, but when I contacted TT they said that as the line was unbundled they couldn't generate one (but that this was actually a good thing as it should mean Virgin could take the line over more easily) - when I told Virgin this, they checked against my phone number, and that was when they said I needed to rejoin BT first.

Very confused, and quite frustrated - we just bought a new PC, and have yet to connect it to the net - as TT's connection has been poor for a while, we decided, "New PC, New Start", and have not installed ANY net software at all yet. I want to get this right first time.

Any advice much appreciated - especially from the seemingly endlessly patient Samara! ;-)

MACs aren't used in migrations from full LLU at present. You need a "Simultaneous Provide". Madasafish will arrange the installation of a BT line for you via Openreach (unlike Virgin/Talktalk and others) so you shouldn't have to deal with BT at all.

AFAIK Samara has moved on but you might try contacting Madasafish using the form or sales number here - http://www.madasafish.com/contact_sales/

You can switch to any supplier and you do not have to deal with any BT. It is just that some ISPs refuse to (not can't) reconnect you to the backbone. That means they can deceitfully blame BT for the reconnection charges and let them gather all the bad publicity.

As to Madasafish, the problem with the MAC code is that the "free connection" part of the bundle you're clicking is only applicable if you are transferring from another standard BT-compatible provider. As this is not the case you will have to pay a £115 new line fee. As to the order of the sign-up process, you'll have to dig around their site some more to suss out the correct forms and order.

£115??? Blimey... :-(

Cheers for the advice guys/gals, will have a think - from what you say it appears that my options are - stay with TT (and maybe get them to give us a wireless modem (which they said they'd do but it'd cost us £50) or pay up and move back onto the BT/OpenReach system.

Sigh...

You will need to emphasise it's a "Return To Donor" line (re)-connection which should be free. Not advertised much and not understood/known about by many support staff but is a mechanism for returning unbundled lines to BTs network free of charge.

Where you might encounter charges is in the re-provision of broadband (as a new connection) which is around £40 unless Madasafish will cover that or they have a free connection deal on the go.

The actual "simultaneous provide" mechanism normally would mean you contact either your new voice or broadband provider and say you need a migration from full LLU. You get a ref number which you then give to the other provider to tie the two up (theoretically). Madasafish provide both services so may be easier. Lack of knowledge all round means this is a bit hit or miss at the moment, new guidelines due to be published any day now for both end users and ISPs on how the differing procedures "should" work.

All this of course plays into the hands of Talktalk as none of this is mentioned when you sign up and it seems easier to stay put. We needed a phone that worked more than 50% of the time so took the plunge and suffered no more than 5 days broadband downtime, phone transferred same day. £40 for broadband connection but no charge for BT line.

Thanks for that - called MAAF just now and asked about all that.

Was advised that our 2 options were:

1 - to call BT and get them to convert the line over to one of their own - however, IMO there's no way they'll do this without me signing up to a minimum contract. Which I'd then be breaking if I immediately left for MAAF. Presumably with a fee (anyone know how much?)

2 - We can get MAAF to arrange a new line for us (as suggested above) - and this'll cost the £115

I asked about the Return to Donor thing, but the guy I spoke to didn't know anything about that.

I'm beginning to wish that the internet had never been invented... ;-)

If you aren't in too much of a hurry then wait till the new "Best Practice Guide" (Migrations Programme) is published later this month. "Should" clear up all this confusion. £70 if you leave BT within 12 months of getting them to arrange re-connection of your line.

One avenue which may be worth exploring in the meantime is the Post Office. They arrange line installations and I can't see a minimum term anywhere although may be well hidden. Maybe they have heard of "Return To Donor"? All the others I know of who do installations, Plusnet, Phone Co-op have 12 month minimum terms.

Another thought, BT are doing a £30 line installation offer , you need to quote the notice number and may be worth looking at if all else fails.