Hi
I signed up for Demon Broadband in November. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I had to move house a couple of months later. Demon advised me to cancel broadband at my old property and then call them to re-instate it at the new home.

When I called them to re-instate the service they could not do this because there is no BT line at the house. Phone services are provided by NTL/Virgin to the property. No mention was made of additional payments or contracts. I recieved an email saying my current service had been cancelled.

But now they have sent me a bill for £185 which they say is because I signed a 12 month contract for BB with them.

They say I signed a contract, but I would argue that as they are unable to supply the service to the new property they are effectively breaking any agreement we had? I have sent a letter asking them to waive this fee, but haven't heard anything yet.

Any advice would be much appreciated. It's bad enough having to move home without having to pay a fee for a service I cannot receive!

Kantblue

I think the point you need to make is that you want the service but they cannot provide it.

You could get a BT line installed but that would cost you about £75.

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'Now, I have become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'

Immo is right.

From a contract law point of view, the contract has been frustrated - it cannot be performed. Under such circumstances, if memory serves me correctly, it can be considered null and void.

You certainly should NOT have to pay!

HTH

Cat

I just had to edit that - I wrote 'should' when I meant 'shouldn't' - tired today!!

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Hi Kantblue

Thanks for your post.

I think everyone is right here, they cannot deliver their service to you and so therefore the contract is void.

I would contact their high level complaints dept and tell them that since they cannot provide the service to you this qualifies as them breaching their service level agreement. They have 10 working days to respond, if they don't you will consider that as agreeing that the contract is void and that there will be no penalty on your part.

If they do respond then what you need to do is tell them that you will seek legal advice on the matter, Which? offer a good legal service that would be worth checking out here.

Let me know how you get on?

Cheers

Jason

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Jason Lloyd
moneysupermarket.com
0800 298 5770

" We're here to help you find the best deal and avoid the pitfalls through sharing knowledge and experiences."

JASON, i think you are overlooking the fact that the contract was to supply broadband to the old property which had the facilities to accept bb, they did ! let us assume kantblue was already living in the new property then contacted DEMON they would give the same answer, "before we can provide you with BB you must have a BT line." kantblue would then have the choice of paying for a BT line then entering into a contract with DEMON to provide bb, or forget the whole thing.

Ron, sorry, as i have said elsewhere today, I am having a dumb day......

But I am not with you.....

Confused Cat

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You're quite right Robobby my mistake, they want payment for the previous property where they delivered the broadband, but this only makes the whole matter trickier.

I would still seek legal advice on this as it rests of whether you can still ask a customer for a 12 month cancellation fee if they move home.

Cheers

Jason

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Jason Lloyd
moneysupermarket.com
0800 298 5770

" We're here to help you find the best deal and avoid the pitfalls through sharing knowledge and experiences."

Ah! I see.

Much would depend upon the terms of the contract itself; however, I think that it would be reasonable to imply into a contract for broadband provision that the user might want to move house. At the point that they do so, if the service cannot relocate with them, I still say that the contract has been frustrated.

Legal advice might be wise but is also going to be expensive.

Cat

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cat, can you please explain what you would do in this circmstance. there are still a great deal of areas in the uk that cannot receive digital television, when you buy a tv reputable dealers ask for your post code to ensure you can recieve digital broadcasts. lets assume you buy a digital tv whilst living in leeds then later move to an area not covered by digital broadcasts, would you take your set back and demand your money back ?

I think, if it were me, I would have a look at the Supply of Goods and Services Act, the provisions of which I honestly don't remember, and see what I could work out as to my rights.

But, whether we like it or not, the contract for supply of service has been frustrated. You see, when you buy a TV, you buy one as a product which is a different issue. If you move out of a service area and that TV becomes useless, that's not the problem of the TV supplier. But with a service being supplied, it may - and I am not saying will - be a different matter altogether.

I would imagine that negotiation might provide a middle ground. I wouldn't take legal advice simply beacuse of the cost involved. the one time i engaged a solicitor rather than DIY all that happened was that I lost more money, and the quality of her letters etc was no better (in fact, a lot worse) than mine would have been.

I always encourage people to handle their own affairs as far as possible. Not only is it cheaper, but eminently more satisfying!!

Cat

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this has been a most interesting thread.as you say is it worth involving solicitors? the retail laws are a total mess like insurance if there is a clause tyey will use it..i am sure you along with all other contributors will go along with me in wishing kantblue a satisfactory end to her problem..please do keep in touch kantblue and let us know the iutcome...

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies.

I have received another missive from Demon in reply to my letter in which I asked why I should be expected to pay for a service that Demon could not supply to me. I have received the following reply (edited for space reasons).

"Without prejudice.
The outstanding balance on your account of £187.62 would still be valid for payment as our terms and conditions state you had entered a 12 month contract at your previous address.

We would consider this balance valid for payments as it relates to the service at your old premises and was subject to contract for 12 months. When a customer moves premises within there 12 month contract we do as a gesture of goodwill waive the remaining months of the old contract.

This would only be done as a gesture of goodwill and we are not contractually obliged to this for your old service.

Therefore, as you are unable to get a service at your new premises full contract charges have been raised for your old service."


I'm confused here, on the one hand they are saying "When a customer moves premises within there 12 month contract we do as a gesture of goodwill waive the remaining months of the old contract", and on the other are saying that I still need to pay for the whole 12 months. There is absolutely no reply to my question about paying them for a service that I cannot recieve and they cannot supply!

It's very annoying but I'm not sure who to contact now, Office of Fair Trading, Offcom, Which, Consumer groups etc. I do feel that I will take this up, it seems a ludicrous situation.

BTW, I'm an IT Manager at a company, one of the reasons I chose Demon was that I'm responsible for BB procurement at a professional level, I will most certainly cancel all current (6 years+) contracts with Demon on a professional basis unless a satisfactory resolution comes from this. It probably won't bother Demon in the least, but I will get a great deal of personal satisfaction from it :)! (and its for much larger sums of money than the £187 Demon want from me on a personal basis).

Kantblue

At this stage you need to seek legal advice as this is outside of normal terms of service and I'm not sure this will be in your contract. Someone with experience of Consumer Law would be better placed to advise you on this - Which? offer a good consumer law service that would be a good starting point.

NB: I wouldn't resort to using your ability to cancel the professional contract with Demon just yet as it's not related.

Cheers

Jason

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Jason Lloyd
moneysupermarket.com
0800 298 5770

" We're here to help you find the best deal and avoid the pitfalls through sharing knowledge and experiences."

I think what they mean is this:

That, if you take out a new contract at the new property, they will, as a gesture of goodwill, waive the balance of the old contract.

But, if you don't take out a new service contract, then you still have to pay for the old one. You can't take out a new one and thus you fall, in their eyes, into the latter category.

So, presumably, transfer of service doesn't occur with them - it's old contract to new contract if you move house. And, if there is no transfer, then there isn't any frustration of the contract because it was never intended to be transferred from address to address..

Clever!!

I'd still try and see where you can get with this. There is the concept of unreasonable terms and conditions yet to explore, for starters. And yes, the Which service is very good; my brother used them reagrding a faulty car.

To help any more I'd really need to se ethe contract which isn't going to be possible. Keep me posted, however.

HTH

Cat

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Hi everyone, just thought I would post further about this situation. In case anyone has forgotten, I committed the apparent crime of moving house when I had a broadband contract with Demon. Demon advised me to cancel my existing contract with them and call them when I had moved. No mention was made of any additional costs involved. When I got to my new house and contacted Demon to restart the service, Demon told me that THEY WERE UNABLE TO SUPPLY A BROADBAND service on my new number. Now they are insisting that I pay £187 for the 12 month contract at the old property, saying that it is only their "Goodwill" that allows customers to move property without incurring costs! I really think the law needs looking into here, it seems very one sided to me, Demon say I am breaking my contract with them even though they cannot provide me with their service. Why am I the person at fault here? I would say this is a 50/50 situation?

After a number of letters back and forth, Demon simply refuse to have the grace and goodwill to let this matter drop. As they are now at the stage of sending threatening letters/court action etc, I feel I have no option left but to pay this final bill, as I don't want to get a bad credit rating.

In response to my questions complaining about the appalling service when I actually had the broadband from Demon, [eg less than .5meg speed for a supposedly 8meg service. Service also being down frequently for three days at a time. Demon insisting that I wait 24 hours before they would report the fault to BT, etc] Demon said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 

In response to my comments that they were unable to supply the service, they merely copied and pasted their standard terms of contract and spoke about the change of address being "Goodwill".

 Ultimately it it Demon who will lose out here, I'm the IT manager at a large company using Demon for our business services, so I guess you all know what is going to happen now. I have dropped Demon Internet as our preferred supplier and am now beginning the process of terminating various contracts with the company. Ultimately when all this is completed the loss of business to Demon will be in the region of at least £2000 a year, I know from dealing with this company that they probably won't care in the least about his, but it gives me great satisfaction.

In short I would advise ANYONE who is considering using Demon to read very carefully their terms and conditions, and to note that Demon will expect customers to adhere to them to the letter, no matter if they cannot supply the services the customer is paying for.

 kantblue