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Motrgage disclosure document

Last post Thu, Nov 08 2012, 10:49 AM by potatoefeet66. 9 replies.
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  •  Thu, Nov 08 2012, 10:49 AM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    Hi,
    I will try clarify things a little. I realise any application is take on its own merits at the time. therefore just because you got one one time does not mean you'd get the same offer again. However,
    1) 2005 original advance of 150k for house purchase of 230k ( note 57k of the 150 was ported to new property from sale, so I have one mortgage but two accounts)

    2) May 2007 put property on Market valued at 375K. I had extended and refers it 1930 semi.

    3) 22 Sept 2008 mortgage rate switch to life time tracker at 0.84pc ( no consolidation no further advance just a regulate rate switch with lender.Previously i was on banks sir which the accounts switched to at the end of the term in Feb 2008, and I had been on them until the tracker in Sept. )

    4) Dec 2008 accepted an offer on sale of 300k as I did not want to chase market down and I had an offer accepted on the house I wanted to move to offer was 203K this was detached 1900's house ( iwas in branch and just before christmas and had a informal chat with the branch advisor who I had never met before , told her of my situation I wanted to downsize sort of use profit equity to reduce lending she said ad i had over 40pc up to 80± deposit application could be fast tracked)

    5) 3rd Jan 09 through a data access document she along with underwriter had contacted mortgages and were told details about my mortgage the product code and staff confirmed the rate.( I know this is ok to do a soft search, I was not present and was not aware this had been done. FSA rules say that should any detail become known that would fall out of criteria then the company can refuse to do business and and should not issue kfi if there is any doubt a new mortgage is unsafe, in layman's words)

    6) I cannot be absolutely sure on this point but i recall again on an informal basis seeing her at the end of Jan 09 and she gave me a formal appoint meant for an application on the Feb 3rd tues, as she did not work mondays.

    7) tuesday 3rd Feb 2009 two hows before application advisor called said she had been doing some preparation prior to meeting it now is known that was on 3rd Jan one month earlier see point 5. and that she could not now fast track my application. She advised me to come in any way and proceed which I did. I was issued a KFI dated 3rd of Feb and I signed a disclosure, the income she advised I submit on application as I had told her had fallen but at such short notice had no proof were the figures slightly reduced from the amounts for original advance in 2005 to support the 150k. this application was a 5k reduction of the 142k outstanding at that time which she calculated would meet ltv criteria of my product to port ltv 60-40pc.

    8) that afternoon of the 3rd feb she called to say declined due to income status, but I was offered an appeal to come in with more details, which i did on the 13th Feb a Friday. appeal was for same figure 138k at this stage I had not even considered offering a further reduction by using more or all of the 80±K of equity.

    9) 17th Feb Application declined call from advisor to come in and listen to message from underwriter on her mobile. I was then told by her i would have to stay put or go to another lender.
    I did this that morning, I lodged an official complaint.
    I left branch no fuss no arguing the point but very upset as I was supposed to exchange complete it was that close.

    10) 10th March as I still had buyer etc I made via email to offer a further 20 K reduction and would discuss this with advisor when I was due to visit branch to collect copies of underwriters notes on application. when I saw advisor she refused to even acknowledge my 20k reduction I said id use all equity of ±80k. I was told she would not entertain anything I left .

    11) all processes have been followed I've have pursued this since then, Cutomer service manager called had long chat on may 1st 2009 she said mr ..... had your income supported 138 k then you would be in your new house today, we very politely finished the conversation on the note that her words i had raised points she was not aware of , she said the complaint would be sent to head office who are better able to answer.

    Now the fun bit starts i have pointed out that from data and records the application is recorded as taking place face to face on the 5th Feb the documents ref do not match neither do the timing I have had them looked at by an independent who has confirmed that this is wrong and as lender cannot give me a copy of the disclosure doc had no right to do search external this is the breach of data and the application is manipulated fraud by lender to remove 0.84pc product. they have also breached fsa rules and also prevented a simultaneous lump sum reduction upon porting. What comes first qualifying by being in a position to be able to make an 80k lump sum reduction or to port if its a simultaneous transaction.

    This is i now believe one of the single most mortgage internal process manipulation that destroys all mortgages by lender and makes our homes security we offer a worth less.
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, Nov 08 2012, 8:21 AM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    As I said previously, I don't really see how your rights under data protection have been breached abnd so thereefore i don't see that you will get what you think you deserve from ICO as from the story I have read you details have not been breached.....I wil garee though that FSA protocols do not appear to have been followed....I will admit that i thought you had to hold onto client details for 6 years not 3.....means I can clear a whole load of space ion my own office.

    I think for me, what is key to have a better understanding on this is WHY you were declined. I can only assume it is affordability if you wwre offered a fast track for double the amount of mortgage originally. If you wwere offered more previously then this would have been on the basis of a previous income level and good cresdit history. Has your employment changed? Has the basis of your employment changed? Has your income level changed? Have you had more children, gained significant amounts oif other debt, had credit problems?

    The answer to this question really is key to understanding the timeline that you have

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, Nov 07 2012, 10:45 PM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    I think this senario has blown many minds it was not planned. yes this is somewhat unbelievable
    that a lender would manipulate internally its own application process and carry out an assessment by an underwriter
    to prevent a customer making a lump sum reduction of their mortgage and simultaneously allowing the porting of the balance
    all to prevent the benefit of the 0.84pc product they hold. I will when i get them, post word for word the ICO report and findings.
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Nov 06 2012, 12:01 PM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    Thank you zeb, your advice has been most helpful.

    I would like to add for your reference, That Im not really that concerned over the advisor search soft or not on the 3rd of Jan, but the issues is as I understand,that under fsa rules that should information become available than the fsa regulated advisor should notify customer and they are not then reguired to do business with the customer, for example they simply may want a mortgage that they cannot afford. Also they should not then provide customer with a kfi for the exact figure being asked for. this is one aspect of my issue more of a brach of fsa rules on treating customers fairly and other failures outlined in FSA MCOB.

    Secondly as my application was conducted on the 3rd Feb face to face when i was provided with a kfi valid for they day. The advisor called me that afternoon around 4.30pm and informed me of the decline. However the credit search and application is all recorded as being done on the 5th feb, this is all documented from data access, every thing is there except the disclosure I signed on the 3rd Feb.

    Furthermore if on the day the kfi was produced on the 3rd Feb, if in the interview it was clear that i was not now eligible for lending why formally book an appointment and proceed with a full application two day later on the 5th.

    I spoke with the fsa help line and they have said based upon my documents not being available as all documents are kept for an absolute min or 3years whether it was successful or not and the fact that the kfi does not match the application date or the application date does not match the kfi, that I should pursue lender over fraud and breaches of fsa rules.

    If i did not meet any lending criteria why manipulate the process and leave it to the point of exchange of completion to inform me i was not now eligible for a fast track application.Why not give explanations to customer why document a single document is missing. which had the application been successful as it was not signed or dated i would have every right to refuse to pay and just walk away with the money.

    I could even understand lender saying we have issues with you but as an existing mortgage holder go away and come back in 3- 6-12 months and we will see if we can help. Not stay put or clear off.

    This is fast becoming a major issue with implication for independents and existing mortgage holders holding products which are no longer commercial viable to lender as in this case.

    Thank you very much for your help, and maybe next time i will use an independent .

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Tue, Nov 06 2012, 8:37 AM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    I doubt very much if this is a data breach. The lender holds the detail on you and has the right to access those detail at any time that he wishes to. Just because he has accessed these details does not mean he has done a credit search on you and as such most likely will not have any reason why you may or may not get a mortgage. lenders may even do "soft searches" which would access your identity and residence details only. This will still show as a seartch on your credit profile but will have absolutely no affect on your credit profile what so ever.....only an application for credit will have any impact on your credit profile and even then there would need to be 3-4 searches for your score to drop.

    Reading back through the previous posts I do not actually see why you have been declined on the application and I think this is vital to why you have such a complaint over this....would you have hasd the same issues abiout the data access if you had been passed for lending? Were you just declined due to the fact that they did not have the appropriate disclosure for the underwriter because the adviser (mortgage monkey) had destroyed it? Were you declined for another reason that you have not yet disclosed? If you were Fast Tracked for several thousand more than you needed and indeed you wanted to just reduce your mortgage then why were you declined? Are you tied into a product code or are you on the lenders variable rate of some kind? I would understand a lender not allowing you to take the variable rate to another property but if you have a lifetime tracker or some other similar product then you should be able to port it

    The ICO would not have any interest in this case as I don't see how your data protected information has been breached unless there was an application made in January or your details were passed to a third party.....simply accessing client details is not a crime. I access my clients details every day of the week. If I were unable to do so I would be out of business but I regularly refer back tom past clients for details of product end dates or to get contact details to inform them of specific products etc...this is perfectly allowable under the DPA

    As much as I don't like people dealing directly with lenders I don't think the lenders have done anything wrong from what i can piece together from your posts....but yes i do agree that many a broker will have significant penalties if they do notm adhere to ther many many rules and regulations put in place and thr lenders do seem to ride roughshod over these rules when it suits them....but this is slowly changing with reforms being introduced that will peg back the lenders and force them to offer more....don't be surprised to see interest rates, booking fees and arrangement fees rise for them to cover the cost of the changes

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Mon, Nov 05 2012, 1:43 PM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    Thank you Zeb for the information.

    No i did not require any increased lending or ask for any, all I wanted to do was reduce the existing mortgage balance. Seller confirmed I met the criteria for a fast track, this was confirmed at our original meeting on in Dec. However data capture show that the advisor accessed personal mortgage information asking staff confirming my product rate of 0.84pc, without my consent or knowledge on the 3rd of Jan and I had no correspondence from the lender until the application was supposedly allowed to be submitted on the 3rd Feb. As lender searched their system on the 3rd jan if it that search uncovered any issue that would make a future application unsuccessful, FSA rules indicate they are obliged to inform customer of any issue indicating a problem or simply that they don't want to do business with an individual. This would then make an official full application pointless. I was porting perfectly run existing mortgage with a min of 40pc deposit meeting KFI criteria which was £98,000, although I could have increased this amount by up to a further £82,000from the further reserve of equity in my property.

    I suspect sharp practice here, as lender wanted to remove the product I hold and was not prepared to surrender. I have asked the ICO to investigate a data breach and that of fraud, as the lender searched my credit file but refuses and cannot provide the disclosure I signed with the advisor in branch on the 3rd Feb.

    It is clear that the big boys think they can do what they like and hammer independents who may inadvertently make an error. There is certainly a moral issue here for every broker out there. This is a complete mess which has robbed me of hundreds of thousand in finical loss. Fraud is a serious criminal offence for any individual or organisation.
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Mon, Nov 05 2012, 12:55 PM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    I cannot give any kind of knowledge or experience so far as a lenders systems and processing but i can tell you from my own point of view as a mortgage broker that if I take any details from a client that would normally be protected under the data protection Act that I have to by law keep those details or a copy of those details on file for a total of 6 years. I am not allowed to destroy anything that would be classed as data protected information as an applicant can at any time apply for disclosure of information....as yiou have done and this absolutely 100% would inclde any declaration to any aplkication you have carried out. If they do not have this on record then how can they prove they have not stolen your details or that you gave the information voluntarily.

    What i will also say is that often for brokers the declaration for such applications would be an automatic declaration that would not need a signature however the cleitn would always be given/offered a copy of the declaration with which to agree and the submission of such an application would be classed as consent to the terms and conditions but from what i am led to believe, as the client is sat with the mortgage monkey in a branch they must obtain written consent on any application.

    So far as your current rate. Am I to believe that you are looking to purchase another home and you need to borrow additional funds in order to do so? If this is the case then it should be possible to keep yopur current product in place and port it to a new property and then should you need to do any additional borrowing on top of this then you would do that at the applicable rates offered by the lender....often these rates can be quite high and you may find a better overall deal by renegotiating the whole product...even if it means sacrificing a 0.84% rate

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Mon, Nov 05 2012, 8:14 AM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    Thank you for your reply. Firstly, the Issue is that the application was assessed by an underwriter even though application is not signed or dated. I have been told by FSA that it should have been returned to seller for that reason before full application.

    Secondly the date and timing do not tie up, a signed disclosure document cannot be produced and the KFI i was given at the application is valid for one day dated the 3rd feb, not the 5th when lender carried out a credit search. Data access information also shows on the 3rd of Jan the seller accessed with the underwriter my mortgage information as details of the rate were disclosed by staff.

    I have held on to the 0.84pc life time tracker with no tie ins or ERC, I was told if I wanted to move I would have to stay put or go to another lender, of course I would have lost my rate. Therefore I have been forced into mortgage imprisonment I was in a position to reduce by 70pc the existing mortgage balance.

    If this manipulation of process was carried out by regulated independent then they would rightly be stripped of their FSA regulated classification.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Mon, Nov 05 2012, 12:55 AM

    Re: Motrgage disclosure document

    You need to clarify what the issue is here. Are you upset that the timing was recorded as 13 minutes when you feel it should be recorded as 60+ minutes? Or are you upset that you feel entitled to a mortgage and your application was rejected?

    My opinion is that, if you do indeed hold a mortgage product on which you are paying 0.84pc, then you should hold on to that partcular poduct and you should not try to switch to anything else.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Nov 04 2012, 11:28 PM

    Motrgage disclosure document

    Can anyone please explain the following. I made a data access reguest specifically regarding a mortgage application which was declined / refused by my existing mortgage provider.

    The documented information returned, shows that the application was submitted and received by underwriter on 5th Feb, as application not signed or dated, also the date the application is recorded is two days after it was conducted face to face with advisor as indicated by the date 3rd Feb on the KFI document,for the exact figure I was asking for. Further more the timings indicate that the application was completed in 13 mins from the time the advisor logged onto main frame, which is impossible, as the application took over an hour in branch.

    I asked an independent mortgage advisor who said I should go into the branch and ask from the advisor who conducted my application for a copy of the disclosure document I signed on the 3rd Feb. I was told that it was destroyed as the application was not successful.

    I know independent mortgage advisors get hammered if the breach or break FSA Rules but it appears so far high street lenders can get away with it, I don't think this is moral or fair. By the way the mortgage product I hold is 0.84pc.

    I would appreciate any advice and help, But please don't say go to FOS as they don't want to know this is a nightmare.

    please help thank you.
    • Post Points: 20