hangingon:

hi, what about these ???

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/hangingon2010/Halifax02.jpg

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/hangingon2010/Barclaycard01.jpg

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/hangingon2010/Halifax01.jpg

I would say both the Halifax agreements are unenforceable unless it can be proved (by the Halifax) that the terms & conditions (which of necessity should include the 'prescribed terms') were attached or supplied with the application form you signed. On the face of what you have posted it would appear they were NOT supplied.

The Barclaycard agreement could be strongly argued to be enforceable.

hi, what about these ???

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/hangingon2010/Halifax02.jpg

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/hangingon2010/Barclaycard01.jpg

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/hangingon2010/Halifax01.jpg

Hi i have a hailfax application and in the signture box it says This is a agreement regulated under the consumer credit act 1974sign it only if you want to be lagally bound by its terms

on the upper part that says i have receved a copy of the t&cs and agree to be bound by them

it was dated on the 23/05/05

BUT does this make it a valid agreement ???

I've just agreed and paid an f & f with Capital One for 15% of the balance. I definitely wouldn't offer any kind of f & f to anyone until you have the agreement and know whether it is enforceable. Even then some lenders, Halifax / Lloyds are particularly difficult to deal with, they will just ignore your f & f's and continue with their pointless collection activities.

hangingon:

ok so if sharkleys cant find the agreement that i signed whats the best way to deal with them

mbna may have a deal in full and final? whats the kind of % the debt they may take ?

and halifax have a agreement in my name but not my signature anyware on it ?

any help please

Barclays have no grounds (at the moment) to pursue this debt. You should write to them explaining you do not acknowledge any debt to them since the documentation provided does not constitute a valid credit agreement consistent with the CCA 1974. They will no doubt respond with threat letters.

MBNA will push for anything over 75% of the outstanding debt.

As far as Halifax are concerned, I confess I don't know what the situation is with the named account holder not having signed, but your OH might be construed as your legal agent. The agreement does need to be legible.

ok so if sharkleys cant find the agreement that i signed whats the best way to deal with them

mbna may have a deal in full and final? whats the kind of % the debt they may take ?

and halifax have a agreement in my name but not my signature anyware on it ?

any help please

Brooooooooooce:

Thought the judge over in Chester (Halbert I think he's called) had just ruled on a CPR 31.16 in favour of a debtor (Barclaycard were the creditor). He ruled they should disclose the original agreement to save all the hassle and cost of a court case (common sense really). Said it wasn't fishing and awarded costs against Sharkleys on the grounds they were acting unreasonably. Because of the significance of his decision he is allowing Sharkleys to appeal.

Barclays a rumoured to have destroyed a good number of agreements. Appeal or not they may well be unable to produce an agreement - ever. I've not read the case so not sure why the DJ thinks his decision is significant? It is standard to require disclosure under 31:16 - or 31:14 when action has started.

In this thread I think we are a LONG way off likely court proceedings and CPR 31:16 disclosure.

Thought the judge over in Chester (Halbert I think he's called) had just ruled on a CPR 31.16 in favour of a debtor (Barclaycard were the creditor). He ruled they should disclose the original agreement to save all the hassle and cost of a court case (common sense really). Said it wasn't fishing and awarded costs against Sharkleys on the gounds they were acting unreasonably. Because of the significance of his decision he is allowing Sharkleys to appeal.

"So the only good news is that Barclays are highly unlikely to have any documentation to pursue that debt - 1988?? Did they issue credit cards 22 years ago??"

I've had a NatWest Access card since 1975 !!!!!!!

conmankiller:

basa - In bullet 2 it appears that MBNA have sent the agreement that is electronically signed.

Yeh - missed that. I thought that was a different card! And with 'hangingon' saying he thought the agreement was earlier.

So the only good news is that Barclays are highly unlikely to have any documentation to pursue that debt - 1988?? Did they issue credit cards 22 years ago??

Thanks guys ihave had back the sar data so do i take it that this is all the have?

1 the halifax card was in my name and she just signed in the wrong box i have used the card and its in my name !

2 So if its a electronic tick box agreement thats the end of that route ?

3 barclays have not sent any type of cca so how do deal with them ?

Thank you

basa - In bullet 2 it appears that MBNA have sent the agreement that is electronically signed.

Unfortunately you find yourself in the 'trap' the test cases have inadvertantly constructed.

MBNA are not obliged to send a copy of the signed agreement. A reconstituted one is sufficient for s78(1).

However without a copy of the signed agreement you cannot assess its enforceability under s61 "Signing of Agreements.

It may well be MBNA cannot find the agreement or have realised it is unenforceable. Unfortunately until a court case is likely you cannot demand original copies of the agreement under the CPR 31.16.

The lenders / DCAs are getting crafty with this loophole unless the SAR turns up something useful.

1) "It looks as if my Wife signed" - Is that a fact or are you not sure (bad copy).? Did you in fact use the card, or has your Wife applied in your name.? If so this could be fraud.! unless the debt is actually hers.?

2) That sounds like the electronic tick box agreement, if so this is considered legally binding...until that is ticked the application cannot be allowed to proceed any further.

3) They can now produce a "reconstituted" copy following the recent test cases in Manchester, even if no CCA has yet been sent, one can be produced at anytime using details held on record about the account (long printout). This event cannot be safely ruled out....but they cannot seek enforcement without providing either the original or the reconstituted.

You need to have what they sent you physically examined, I suggest you use your local CAB who will give you their free opinion.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

Hello alll

I have three cards and with some help from this site i sent them all sec 78 and sar requests

1. Halifax came backwith a bad copy of an agreement dated 23/5/05 and it looks if my wife signed in the box and in the extra card one and noware have i signed it so is the debt mine ?

2 Mbna have come back with a big pile of paper but not a signed agreement save for a very new five sided one dated 18/2/2006 . with only a box with no signature but a tick in a box saying (ticking the box is a valid means of establishing the authenticy and integrity of my signature to this credit agreement.)

3 Barclaycard have sent a bigger pile but no signed agreement but very long print out saying that it was opened on the 19/8/1988. but lots of copys of letters says i must pay and what they may do

So any help please the cards are killing me im trying to keep going i have 3 kids and my wife has MS and the last years been a bad time