evomin:Finally got a billing (non-prepayment) meter fitted again yesterday, and without having paid npower a penny! If they want money they'll have to take me to court and then the court will here what they did.

In that case you might find this a useful link...

http://www.payplan.com/frequently-asked-questions/county-court-judgements.php

Finally got a billing (non-prepayment) meter fitted again yesterday, and without having paid npower a penny! If they want money they'll have to take me to court and then the court will here what they did.

Thanks for your reply.

Graeme Delap: If you feel these terms have been violated, please do drop me an email and I'll be happy to take a look at it in more detail.

I don't have anything concrete, just a suspicion based on many of the replies trying to persuade me to give in to npower when I believe some of the money they are asking for has already been payed (I can't be sure of this as I still have not received the statement of account from last June, so I have no breakdown of the money they are asking for).

Graeme Delap:

I'm afraid that sometimes you do have to read between the lines.

This raises some questions about discrimination against people such as myself, who find it difficult to "read between the lines". I appreciate, though, that that is not necessarily a problem which can be easily addressed by those running a forum.

Graeme Delap:

We don't discourage those with an insight into an industry from posting - they often have extremely helpful advice to offer. Similarly, we don't prevent official representatives of companies from responding to comments being made about them and attempting to resolve customer service issues if possible.

I have nothing against this, as long as they are open about the fact that they represent these companies.

Oh dear.

Your first paragraph is impossible. Your third paragraph is the kind of thing that makes it good that the internet is both ephemeral and anonymous - did you really compare your hissy fit at N-Power to the kind of behaviour that stops oppressive dictatorships coming into being?

Your last paragraph suggests that whatever it is you're studying, it's not either micro renewables or economics. Have a nice day...

Jalexa,

I'm often told it's best to read between the lines with my posts.

;o)

Graeme Delap:

Reading between the lines, thank you for defending my impartiality.

Hi evomin,

Thanks for your suggestion and glad you like the site.

We do require that all members validate their accounts by email and confirm their acceptance of the moneysupermarket.com Terms of Service and Community Standards. If you feel these terms have been violated, please do drop me an email and I'll be happy to take a look at it in more detail.

Forums, by their very nature, can be edgy places and I'm afraid that sometimes you do have to read between the lines sometimes and take the rough with the smooth. Not everyone is always going to agree and it's easy to hide behind a keyboard and to comment on an opinion or a decision someone else has made - without a full appreciation of their circumstances.

We don't discourage those with an insight into an industry from posting - they often have extremely helpful advice to offer. Similarly, we don't prevent official representatives of companies from responding to comments being made about them and attempting to resolve customer service issues if possible. We do draw the line at blatant advertising and touting for business however - quite rightly in my opinion.

At the end of the day, help can often come from the most unlikely of places. The ethos of this community is to help and support those trying to make sense of their personal finances and for everyone to find ways to save time and money.

Everyone has the right of reply - that's the nature of democracy.

I hope that helps. Do drop me a line at the email address below if there's anything specific you'd like me to take a look at.

A suggestion to Money Supermarket - I love your site but suggest you vet people before allowing them to post to check they are not on the payroll of the company being discussed.

I'm afraid I find some of the things that have been said on this thread insulting to my intelligence. An example - saying that I may have overlooked the notification of the direct debit increase. If I knew you personally I'd invite you to look through my file to see for yourself that it was never received. Another example - saying I should have got npower's permission to cancel the direct debit. Just look at any direct debit guarantee and you will see that I was quite within my rights to cancel it.

As for giving in to bullies, it is this that ultimately leads to oppressive dictatorships. Someone has to stand up to bullies and if I am the only one who is willing to do so then so be it, even if that means doing without electricity. It would of course be a lot easier if others were to support me instead of blaming the victim.

Micro renewables are getting cheaper and more viable all the time. When everyone has them energy companies will have no businesses and their employees will have no jobs. Treating people like this is simply going to speed up that process. They may have the power no, but we will have the last laugh.

Hi davelewisdivingheader,

Thanks for your post and feedback on our comparison tool. I've passed your comments to our energy team and also asked our utilities manager, Scott Byrom to respond in more detail as soon as he is back in the office at the end of next week.

In the meantime, I can only emphasise that when displaying seasonal variations, moneysupermarket.com calculate annual consumption in the same way as all the other comparison sites, and as agreed with Consumer Focus. You can read more details about the voluntary Consumer Focus Confidence Code on the Consumer Focus website here. You can also download a PDF of the code here.

Once again, thanks for your feedback and please don't hesitate to drop me a line at any time. I’ll certainly do my best to help if I can. Alternatively, if you have any questions, please do call the moneysupermarket.com energy team on 0845 345 1296.

I hope that helps.

Ok, I think there's a lot of common ground between us, believe it or not. (By the way I don't think my kids come on here...)

Let me just address your last paragraph. You're right; in theory it's the utility company's job to sort these things out, not yours.

Guess what? They haven't, and you're the one who's going to end up with no supply.

Now, on the one hand you can use forums like this to tell the whole world your story, but the heat and light that generates is purely metaphorical - you need something more real for your home.

Yes, call centre staff are paid to sort these problems out. More than once, in capability reviews or probation reviews that I've sat in on whilst deciding whether someone should still have a job I've heard a raft of excuses that boil down to 'I don't get paid enough to care about giving good service...' Part of me understands that. My experiences leads me, when calling companies, to want the best service but to expect the worst. So I cajole and persuade, and try to avoid telling people what they should do.

In theory that's wrong, it should be the big company cajoling and persuading me. That's not the reality though.

Dear Jalexa

You may be right or wrong in your August 08 DD being insufficient but until it is proved differently I will take a reasonable opening thread at face value. The mistake that evomin made was, perhaps through lack of experience, not realising that with a giant right and wrong doesn't come into it certainly to start with. They have control and much as it may grate the DD should not have been cancelled without their specific ok. I liken this to standing up to the playground bully who is entirely in the wrong and says "I'm entirely in the wrong but if you do not "go away" I am going to give you a good hiding.

NOW I will tell you why I moved my problem up to board level at Npower after polite cs continued to contradict themselves partly because of their woeful system and frankly partly through always saying they understood but didn't. they spent a fortune, in relative terms, on my problem and eventually when I lost my sense of humour, in writing, and very effectively took them apart they stated the equivalent of corporate sulking.

THE PROBLEM? When A-L switched my DDs from my old bank when, so I was told, existing DD holders like nPower receive notification the DD does NOT continue it is treated as NEW so it comes with an INITIATION code. nPower put my gas one in but not the electric one. BANG went my dual fuel discount - very efficient on this - WACK came a card saying these were the new ways I could pay and something else I can't remember. NO MATTER how hard I tried at the start and no matter how often CS said "no problem" we'll fix the might of nPower was totally incapable of righting their own SIMPLE wrong. Eventually the joke was after refusing compensation because their pleasure was to put things right perfectly they somehow mamaged to overide their accounts department and overpay me £20. Weeks after I had left some senior "gentleman" wrote to me telling me of the overpayment but saying they wouldn't claw it back. THE DIDN'T even have the sense to realise that they were mugging themselves off royally and... perfectly!

evomin:

While this is an informative thread about the OP's personal mitigating factor actually its not that informative about NPower.

The post describes a customer cancelling a direct debit in Aug 2008 and the utility fitting a prepayment meter in Aug 2009, a full 12 months later. There is a further allegation that some correspondence asks for money "already paid by direct debit". Well, not since Aug 2008 it hasn't and for direct debit payments to be collected but not credited would be very rare due to the collection/payment mechanism.

Of course "impossible" problems are the very problems contact centre staff have the most difficulty solving.

I infer the causal problem was probably that the pre Aug 2008 direct debit was proving insufficient and an account debit balance had accrued. I cannot be certain whether there was proper notice of direct debit increase though I fully accept the customer didn't notice it and the NPower recovery was non-existent. What I don't accept, and indeed it hasn't been claimed, is there was never prior and subsequent quarterly statements which indicated a growing account deficit and ultimately arrears.

Nevertheless, 12 months from payment cessation to prepayment meter installation because of a principled direct debit "refusnik" is not the best case study to pillory NPower.

And to pick up on access's useful contribution about the Subject, as I posted before, NPower tariffs may not pay the annual discount for 12 months so it may only be cost effective to switch after receiving the annual discount. And for those unlucky enough still to be on a "seasonally weighted" tariff, additionally it's most cost effective to switch after the last summer quarterly bill.

Dear evomin

I've read the post to date. I understand Asperger's syndrome. You're only mistake is the heading on the post. It should have been "Don't join nPower!" :-). My experience with them years ago was dreadful when they triumphantly refused me compensation because they're goal was to sort things out perfectly - they never did and I left them asap and despite them having to be at or near the top of the comparison tables I never ever consider switching back.

The dad who talks about call centres. Unfortunately your argument is weakened by the fact that different operators range from bad to good one step back from interpretation - they may or may not read the facts properly or completely. It goes without saying that virtually all big companies regard customer service as a cost (not long term profit centre) and not immediate profit centre so they skimp on the system and without any thought of offending (we are all good and bad at different things) recruit staff on the basis of cost not aptitude for the job. my views BUT in a moment of great candour when I expressed them to a "human" CS of a formerly dreadful CS dept of a Mobile giant a few years ago he said you're absolutely right... the management knew they were buying the wrong system but it was cheap, staff find it difficult to use so they frequently don't bother and give any old answer - I had five different answers to one query, all of which were wrong! - they are demoralised because of pay and working conditions and "everyone" would leave tomorrow if they could find another job.

Finally, have you checked to see if nPower have given you a black mark with the credit reference agencies?

Interesting post!

ex-banker:How do I answer this without sounding like someone's dad? (Ooopppppsss, I am someone's dad!)

Someone on here?

ex-banker:

In most cases they can't be bothered enough to lie to you - they just want to get the call over in the target time and to get on with the next call.

They could have saved a lot of time by sending another copy of the statement we've asked them for several times and that they are claiming must have been lost in the post

ex-banker:

They can hear the customers who're in the 'you're lying to me' mindset - you don't have to have worn a headset for more than a couple of days to know which customers will work with you to find a solution, and which ones irrationally care about 'truth' and 'lies' when it's all about compromise and keeping the lights on.

Not much to compromise on when they are asking for money that's already been paid and have made it impossible to pay more money onto the meter. Hurricane lanterns and gas stoves for me then.

ex-banker:

You sound like a clever person.

Thanks for the compliment! But see my reply to Jalexa above.

ex-banker:Do you wonder if the impatience you evidence here might have had an influence on the outcomes you've experienced?

You don't have to believe a word I say, even though it's base don a whole chunk of experience and evidence about how contact centres work, and how businesses work.

I don't mean to be rude at all, but I think many people who work in call centers and other administrative jobs often forget that while they are being paid to be on one end of a phone line the person at the other end is not. As a student I always had (and will have again from September) deadlines to meet and minimum grades to make or the (already minimal) funding would stop. It's as simple as that. So if it was a choice between meeting one of those University deadlines and dealing with a utilities company, the deadline came first. It's the utilities companies jobs to sort these things out, not mine.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, sorry if that's the way it comes across.

Jalexa:

Indeed they are not picking on you in particular but you are probably better equipped than others to deal with it.

I am an Asperger person (that doesn't mean I'm a psychopath as many people seem to think, just someone with a different kind of brain that works differently and is good at different things). It's well documented that we are not good at sticking up for ourselves and are often taken advantage of financially. You can't assume that because someone is intelligent they will be good at resolving disputes - to take a more extreme example than myself, there are people who can memorize pi to thousands of decimal places, but could never follow a complaints procedure.

Jalexa:

However the point I want to get across, to others if you are closed to the suggestion, is that the initial complaint is just the first step in a process which culminates after 12 weeks with the right to ask the Energy Supply Ombudsman to investigate the complaint. When that happens, the company is hit with a hefty case fee regardless of the outcome. It costs you nothing.

Is that not worthwhile?

That's good to know and indeed it may well be worthwhile, just a pity it takes 12 weeks, by which time the electricity will have been off for about 10.