Hi, I sent a cca request to HSBC, I didnt sign it, so they went over the deadline for producing it and sent me a letter to provide fresh, signed instructions, which I have done. this was about 2 weeks ago and still nothing. However... Im also trying to claim my PPI back as it was misold to me. the PPI dept, sent me a copy of the CCA to prove I signed up for PPI. This consists of two pages, I have signed it and so have the bank and my additional card holder, however there are no terms and conditions, no mention of credit limit, APR,repayment terms, or cancellation period. Is this enforcable? It just states Ive agreed to the terms and conditions, and I want an additional cardholder thats it.

got a scanner?

yeah but dont know how to use it yet! have taken photos but they arent very clear I'm afraid.. if you can save them and zoom in its readable. Ill try and get my other half to scan them as well.[IMG]http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9582/ccaagreement005.th.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/724/ccaagreement003.th.jpg[/IMG]

not a chance in hell.

Prescribed terms are an absolute.

When did they send you this? I can't believe they are still sending stuff like this out.

they're insane!

Its not worth the paper its written on

When will they stop treating people like idiots and realise we can read too

S

Rant over, go get em

really? got it yesterday! but from the dept investigating the PPI, not the ones dealing with my CCA request who have sent me nothing. So even if the other dept attach some terms and conditiond to this and send it me, it is still invalid? If so, whats the next step? thanks

what did you send, and when?

S

Sent a CCA request on 31st march via special deliveryl with the £1 postal order, they sent a letter back asking me to sign it, they went over the 14 day deadline so I sent them a letter stating the account was in dispute after the 14 days were up, and on the 8th May I sent the same CCA request letter again this time with a signature over an antitamper seal thingy. they havent sent me anthing since. The people investingating my PPI claim sent me the agreement yesterday to prove I had signed up to PPI. Could it at all be possible that there is a page missing with the prescribed terms on it which would make it enforcable? Just in case the PPI team have just sent the bits they feel is relevant to PPI? (if that makes any sense?)

Hi,

Difficult to say as the request in relation to PPI does not require them to send you the whole agreement.

However, they are in default under the CCA request although they could argue that they are not required to comply as it constitutes a second request within the prescribed period. If this is the case then this is your agreement. The legislation requires that the prescribed terms be within the 4 corners of the agreement document and whilst this could be a multi page document there is no indication from the documents I can see of more pages. It does reference the T&Cs but the prescribed terms canot be here as it would fail on the 4 corners rule.

Legislation requires that any notice given under the 74 Act be binding (s172) therefore thay cannot duck this unless they state it was not send in respect of the s78 request, in which case they automatically default themselves by not replying (Cake & Eat spring to mind!)

As far as I can tell, based on the content of the document, this fails at a basic level and is irrevocably unenforcible. I think it is the worst agreement I have ever seen.

As far as PPI mis-selling is concerned, where in the document does it give you the option not to take the PPI - I think this is an avenue worth exploring more but in principle, if the agreement is unenforcible then so are all the terms contained therein, including PPI. If you try to take it in isolation then your case weakens as you have signed up, even though you had no choice.

I would tackle the FOS with this, no option to decline. Do you have statements? You might be able to demonstrate that this is not a cost of credit and if they charged interest on the premiums then this will add weight to your case

S

Thanks for your help, I wouldnt know what I was doing otherwise! I didnt ask for the agreement from the PPI team they just sent it to me, and the covering letter doesnt mention anything relating to my CCA request, just denies that my PPI was misold to me as I signed the CCA and agreed to the terms. I wasnt told that my pre existing condition wasnt covered, and I did have to leave work because of it and I couldnt claim. sounds silly but I was very young then and didnt realise! I dont think it does give me the option to decline it on the form, I just thought you had to have it at the time. They say I didnt contact them earlier to address this concern about it being mis-sold, but I did when I left work, when I found out and they just said no. Im hoping the other dept reply to my request and send me the same document, so I know for sure nothing is missing that would make it legal. I have all my statements but not to hand at the moment, Ill find them. Like you say , I'd rather just prove the whole thing is rubbish rather than just go after the PPI in isolation. So should I wait until theres been 14 days from the second signed request for the CCA, just to see if they are actually going to send me anything in reply to it? It seems they also added interest to my account after the default letter I sent them, and have ignored it.

If you offered 14 days in your letter then you need to wait 14 days, they could argue that you acted unreasonably - regardless of how unreasonably they are acting.

If they want to duck out on a pre-existing condition then they should have made it known to you at the time, and given you the option to withdraw.

Wait 14 days then contact the FOS on the PPI issue. If you don't get a reply, send them a copy (recorded, sorry about the cost) asking them to confirm that this is a true copy of your executed agreement - the wording must be right.

If they say yes or don't reply then you should be thinking about taking them to court. How would you feel about this?

S

I just looked and I did offer them a further 14 days. If I have to take them to court I definatly would, but I know next to nothing about this procedure and what to expect, also would I have to pay court costs if I lost, or would it be under small claims as the amount is less than £5,000? Ive read a little about taking the bank to court for unlawful charges, would it be the same? thanks

If you go PPI mis selling then it would almost certainly be small claims, unenforcibility would be fast track.

There's nothing to fear in either court but you would need to do a lot more prep for a fast track case. I would always urge extensive preparation in either event.

Frankly, I would go unenforcibility and seek to recover PPI costs within your claim as I think your case is stronger on the CCA route.

S

thanks very muchfor all your help, Ill let you know what happens and report back shortly!

ok, HSBC still have not sent me anything in regards to my request, and the time I gave them to respond is up today. Despite me telling them theyre in default, I got a statement today and for the second time whilst the account is in dispute, theyve added interest to my account. could you tell me what the next step is please? thanks very much for your help again.

upferret:ok, HSBC still have not sent me anything in regards to my request, and the time I gave them to respond is up today. Despite me telling them theyre in default, I got a statement today and for the second time whilst the account is in dispute, theyve added interest to my account. could you tell me what the next step is please? thanks very much for your help again.

Unfortunately, when a CCC refuses to forward a copy of your agreement the only option is a Subject Access Request.

You send this to the Data Controller of the CCC asking for copies of all data relating to yourself on the account. Ask for all data relating to agreements, correspondence, statements etc. etc. There are loads of template letters on the net.

Unfortunately this will cost £10 (the standard fee) and you have to allow 40 days.

If you get the same junk they sent you as your previous post, you are home dry - no enforceable agreement, no pay.