The last letter from them said they would like to take the matter to court unless i offer a settlement an insist that the "Agree to be gaurantor for any further extensions" applies to the new tenancy agreement.

It is true that i havent agreed to act as a guarantor in any other way and have had no contact from this agents at all till the amount was owed and even then only to tell me i owed them money. It had been 5 months since the agrement was signed. I have instructed my solicitor to request an inventory mentioning that it was not in disrepair in febuary when i visited (1 month before the end of the first tenancy) and further more asking for quotations for the repairs. As my solicitor fees are now £450 i am going to see what they reply to this and offer a settlement fee of one months rent (30 days) to save further complications and instruct them that if they wish to proceed with the matter i will be prepared to go to court. I am concerned if they want to pursue this path as i can't legal fees back off them but it seems my best option to avoid spiralling legal fees and further stress from the situation.

Thanks
Craig

I don't think that there is any case to answer and I would be surprised if you were taken to court. It's worth putting your thoughts about the repairs and the new contract in a letter to the agent just in case though.

You state that there is no mention of you on the copy of the second agreement. I assume that it will also be true to say that you haven't agreed to act as guarantor informally, verbally or in any other way for the second contract.

I also expect that the agent is trying to find a creative way to collect the shortfall by mentioning the £3900 of repairs but it would be worth being clear about when you visited the property and, if possible, finding out when the agent last did an inspection. I expect that the first tenancy agreement finished some time before your last visit and it was clearly some time before you were told about these repairs so again, it just seems like hot air.

My guess is that you can expect solicitors' letters and threats of legal action but, if you say that you are happy for the matter to be decided by a court, you will hear no more.

Hello Maxsteam, thank you for your advice. I have sort legal advice and they are contesting that i do indeed owe the rent unpaid. As there is a material vatiation between the contract i signed and the one that was signed with the new estate agents. I wondered if you have seen this type of case before and what if any other options/arguments where avilable to me off the top of your head.

In addition to the rent they are now letting me know there is £3900 of repairs and redcorations to be done to the property. This certainly seems like a tad excessive as the last time i visited the property it was in a "as rented" condition.

Any extra ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

Craig

"i have got a copy of the second agrement and there is no mention of myself in the space for gaurantee."

Felicity King-Evans:

Any idea if he can force them to give him a copy?

No. The new tenancy agreement is just between the agency and the dizzy friend and your friend is not a party to this agreement. He can state the situation in a letter (preferably recorded delivery or at least with a free certificate of posting) and the agency certainly wont deny the second agreement which will help his case. The letter should also state that future communications should not be made other than by letter. He should make a note of the times, dates and content of phone calls and, perhaps, mention some of these in the letter.

The fact that the agency wont deny the existence of the second agreement and they wont deny the content of phone calls will be likely to be the best that he can take to court unless the dizzy friend can find or obtain a copy of the second agreement (or anything supporting its existence like letters or documents showing an increase in rent). It's likely that the dizzy friend will not want to request any documents from the agency and, if he did, the agency would expect at least a promise of payment in return.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Maxsteam, I appreciate it.

The agency have been calling him and literally shouting - I think they're trying to intimidate him into paying. I have told him to tell them he will only communicate by post now.

One thing is troubling me. His dizzy friend (dizzy being one of the more polite terms) has not given him a copy of the later tenancy agreement. The agency has twice admitted on the phone that there is one, but is refusing to provide him with a copy. I don't know if I am being paranoid, my concern is that - when they see the basis of his challenge - they will just deny all knowledge of the later agreement.

Any idea if he can force them to give him a copy?

Thanks again for your help,

Fliss

Yes, the arrears came with the second tenancy agreement which did not have a guarantor.

If anything like this goes to court, the claim will be rejected if any small mistake is pointed out to the court. In this case though, it is quite clear and, as long as he disputes the matter and states that he is willing to go to court, the letting agency should drop the matter. If they don't, simply giving a copy of the letter with any future communications should stop him getting pestered too much.

Hello,

I am a bit puzzled by my friend's predicament and thought I'd see if anyone here has an opinion.

He is a chronically nice guy and agreed to stand guarantor for two friends so that they could rent a flat. The agreement he signed was with Letting Agency 1 and was for six months and any extensions. He didn't notice the extension bit.

So the six months ended and, after that, his friends fell into considerable arrears. They have been evicted and my friend is now being challenged for the outstanding cash and fees. Now, normally, I would tell him to accept liability - the paperwork was pretty clear.

However, after the six months ended, Letting Agency 2 took over and his friends signed a new tenancy agreement - he was not asked to sign that or consulted in any way. Various online sources seem to indicate that any new tenancy agreement to which he was not a party effectively end his liability.

So, I want to a) hear if you think he has a case not to pay b) if you think the below letter is clear on this and c) if the below letter could be improved upon.

I'd be really grateful to hear what you think.

Thank you very much,

Fliss

Dear Sirs,

Without prejudice

Thank you for your letter, which I received October 07, 2010. Unfortunately, I understand that, when Letting Agency 2 took over the account from Letting Agency 1, it signed a new tenancy agreement with Mr and Miss XXXX.

As I was not a part of this second agreement, it is my legal understanding that this action discharged my responsibility. From looking at various online resources, I would like to draw your attention to the below information:

Note, the guarantee will be automatically canceled if the tenant signs a new tenancy agreement with the tenant, or if the terms of the existing tenancy agreement are changed
http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/tenant-guarantor-form/

Landlords should also bear in mind that any variation in the agreement, including the fixed-term coming to an end and tenancy renewal, if done without the guarantor's consent, will discharge the guarantor's liability.
http://www.tenantverify.co.uk/guarantors.htm

Note however that the guarantee will be automatically canceled if you sign a new tenancy agreement with the tenant, or if the terms of the existing tenancy agreement are changed – for example if the rent is increased. In both of these circumstances you will need the guarantor to sign a new guarantee deed.
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/05/08/tenancy-agreements-31-days-of-tips-day-8-guarantees/

As you can see, it appears that the new tenancy agreement you signed with Mr and Miss XXXX on the XX/XX/XXXX will therefore have negated the initial tenancy agreement that I signed.

Please confirm this at by recorded delivery at your earliest convenience. I must also request that you do not pass my information onto your debt collection agency while I dispute liability.

Yours faithfully,
XXXX