home
in

Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

Last post Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:54 PM by Please Help SJ. 17 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (18 items)   1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:54 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    What a Star! Thank you so much, that is such a great weight off my mind!

    SJ

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:48 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Fire this letter by Recorded.

    ............................................ ........................................

    Name & Address

    Date

    Account Ref XXXX XXXX

    Thank you for your letter dated .... XX XXX

    It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).

    You have provided me a copy of an application form and I feel it is my duty to draw your attention to some serious flaws in your comments.

    Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement (Not an application), a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

    These regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

    For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--


    (a)The amount of credit or (credit limit).
    (b)The credit charges.
    (c)The rate of interest and whether it will vary throughout the agreement.
    (d)A notice of cancellation, if it is a cancellable agreement.
    (e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
    (f)Details of the repayment schedule.


    Nowhere on the application form that you supplied is there any reference to these terms. I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the agreement and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect

    Since the document you have supplied is a clear mailer application form, I cannot believe for one moment that these very important terms would be contained on the opposite side of the form, unless they are there for the postman to read while he delivers the mail. Therefore they must have been contained in a separate document, which is prohibited by the SI1983/1553, as there is no clear link to them within the signature document.

    Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regs under s60 CCA1974

    I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in section 65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms. Now since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

    If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading .

    I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and the debt written off with a zero balance.

    I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

    Yours Sincerely

    • Post Points: 50
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:42 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Brilliant! Thanks CMK, really appreciate your view (was hoping you would read this thread!!!).

    Cheers

    SJ

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:36 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    It's an application form without all the requred prescribed terms, it carries the same legal validity as that of a piece of toilet paper. !

    • Post Points: 50
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:33 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Hi Sparky

    Many thanks for taking the time to check the docs for me. I am pretty confident it doesn't contain all the prescribed terms needed to be enforceable but I still appreciate everyones opinion!!!!

    Cheers

    SJ

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:24 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Hi SJ,

    I didn't see the Credit Limit or APRs for anything (Balance Transfers, Purchases or Cash) which are required for the enforcement.

    Think you might be ok.

    Sparky.

    • Post Points: 50
  •  Fri, Jul 31 2009, 2:03 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Hope I have got the link right this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apologies not a techno person!!!

    http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu42/saziw/HALIFAXPG1.jpg

    http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu42/saziw/HALIFAXPG2.jpg

    Many thanks

    SJ

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Jul 30 2009, 8:15 AM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Please Help SJ:

    Hi

    I have borrowed a friends scanner/computer - so here goes for my technical skills! I have scanned the 'reconstituted CCA' on to photobucket. Pages 1 and 2. This is the link. Any comments greatly appreciated as always!

    http://s632.photobucket.com

    Erm your link only goes to the homepage of Photobucket.

    You should place your mouse over the image you wish to link to and copy the image address (the one that starts [IMG])highlighted under the image and paste that into you post here.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Jul 30 2009, 7:03 AM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Hi

    I have borrowed a friends scanner/computer - so here goes for my technical skills! I have scanned the 'reconstituted CCA' on to photobucket. Pages 1 and 2. This is the link. Any comments greatly appreciated as always!

    http://s632.photobucket.com

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, Jul 29 2009, 10:00 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    coney:

    You can blame the banks til you red in the face but if folk don't pay back what they owe then maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess? Yes the banks do overcharge all the time and I think this is downright outrageous, but at the same time why should people get away with borrowing large sums of money and then not paying it back?

    Erm .... how much have the banks borrowed again? Guess who from? I wonder how much will get paid back? I wonder how much the bankers creamed off, are still creaming off and will continue to cream off?

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Wed, Jul 29 2009, 8:42 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Basa48

    I'm in debt up to my eyeballs but have the decency to pay back what I owe. Yes, I appreciate that if you are ill/umemployed it is extremely difficult as you have other commitments. If the banks are selfish and uncaring then why borrow from them in the first place? They are only unselfish and uncaring when people take advantage of the situation by trying to 'bat off' their debts. If I lent you a £1000 i'd expect you to pay it back.

    I agree the banks took our money for the bailout but was the other option? You can blame the banks til you red in the face but if folk don't pay back what they owe then maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess? Yes the banks do overcharge all the time and I think this is downright outrageous, but at the same time why should people get away with borrowing large sums of money and then not paying it back?

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Jul 28 2009, 9:39 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    coney:I'm not being funny but if you owe money to them why dont you just pay it back?

    Could be he/she can no longer afford to and rather than get screwed over and humiliated by an uncaring and selfish mega million pound financial behemoth he'd rather try and not pay just like the banks took our money in bailouts and now won't effing lend it to anyone !!!!!

    Or maybe like me and would do anything just to screw the *ankers back !!

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Jul 28 2009, 7:02 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    Great thanks Basa, I really appreciate you taking time to help me.

    SJ

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Tue, Jul 28 2009, 6:39 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    I'm not being funny but if you owe money to them why dont you just pay it back?
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Jul 28 2009, 1:33 PM

    Re: Help Halifax CCA - how do I reply to this?

    You have previously requested under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a copy of your reconstituted version of the executed agreement. We provided you with a copy in May 2009, which complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act") and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) regulations 1983, SI 1983/1557 ("the regulations").

    The Act specifies a ‘true’ copy (but may exclude personal information and signature) NOT ‘reconstituted’ !!

    We note your comment that the copy of the executed agreement we provided does not contain all the prescribed terms pursuant to the CCA and the Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983. The Bank's agreements have always complied with the requirements of all relevant legislation and we are confident in our ability to demonstrate this. As such, you agreement is enforceable and you should continue to make payments when they become due.

    OK we believe you - NOT.

    In addition, although not required under Section 78 we also provided a copy of the original signed agreement on 1st July 2009.

    No you didn’t!

    You have not disputed the fact that you have benefitted from the agreement and borrowed money from the bank. You have also not disputed that you were aware of the terms of repayment that you entered into when borrowing the money from the bank. As such it seems clear that there is no dispute over the fact that the funds borrowed are required to be repaid or the terms on which that repayment is due. Even if the agreement was not enforeceable, which is not the case here, it is clear from case law, this only prevents one party from enforcing the agreement through the courts, it does not prevent Collections activity or the placing of information on the credit file.

    No dispute as to benefits. The terms of repayment are not contractually agreed and therefore arbitrary and voluntary. You may ask for repayment I may decline.

    Therefore, I decline your request to remove any detrimental information held on your credit file in relation to this credit card account. In signing the credit card agreement, you did give your agreement and consent to the processing of your information. It is clear that by signing the agreement, the customer agrees to their data being used as set out. This is also in compliance with the Data Protection Act. Unfortunately,as a credit file is a true reflection of the conduct of an account, I am unable to amend this information.

    The DPA requires permission to process my data including to third parties. Without a signed agreement there is no proof of my permission. Also the LACORS & ICO feel that defaults on an unenforceable accounts are processed unfairly and not representative.

    Turning to your allegations of harrassment, it is the bank's obligation as a responsible lender to advise customers as soon as reasonable they are in arrears. The bank will give no undertaking not to contact you to ask for payment, particularly as your alleged "dispute" is unfounded.

    It is the banks obligation to operate within the guidelines of the Trading Standards, the Administration of Justice Act 1970 the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, OFCOM and the OFT.

    I trust this clarifies our position.

    I trust this clarifies mine – no compliant agreement, no payment !!

    • Post Points: 50
Page 1 of 2 (18 items)   1 2 Next >