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Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

Last post Fri, Mar 18 2011, 4:15 PM by exterminator. 46 replies.
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  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 4:15 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Sorry...it's best to ask the bookies that question.?
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 4:13 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    I think I may get the wife to phone them up and pretend I don't live at that address! We used to do that and it worked.

    What do you think the chances of a court summons are?
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 3:45 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    My initial reactions would be - Don't correspond with them at all / or, return to sender, and wait to see if a summons for a CCJ should land on your doormat before Jan 2013, if so worry about it then (by requesting CCA's)... if no summons arrives then it's finished with.

    1) Even if they can't prove it, there is no guarantee they will leave you alone... just look around the forum to see how many others have been harassed even though the creditors have not sent back any valid CCA's.

    2) If they did prove it, they may be difficult to negotiate with or insist on the full sum, or even start bankruptcy proceedings.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 3:27 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    As I am now on the electrol roll, I guess I can't ignore their letters as they know where I live.

    Assuming then my only option is to challenge them to prove I owe the debt and provide a valid or original credit agreement - the out come is one of two things.

    1) They can't prove it and leave me alone

    2) Prove it and then I will have to negioate a pay them back...

    Or should I should return their letters - ' Return to sender - not at this address '

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 3:07 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    As you have clarified the IVA failed in Jan 2007, it is also at this point that the usual protection on offer from your creditors taking legal recovery action ceased to exist. It is also from this point of failure on that your creditors then have a further full Six years to legally resume pursuing you for the debt(s) in question, or otherwise petition for your bankruptcy.

    Your creditors so far for reasons unbeknown, have either chosen to or failed to realise that time has been ticking by. This delay now only gives them up to Jan 2013 in which to either obtain a payment or an acknowledgement from you, or apply for a CCJ against you to prevent it from becoming SB... if they realise they still have time.? Providing that you can keep away from their unwelcome attention until Jan 2013, then the debts will become legally unenforceable in anycase.

    On the other hand you can always throw caution to the wind and challenge them to provide legally compliant consumer credit agreements, but do remember...the failed IVA may come to light and you may possibly be stirring up a hornet's nest for yourself, especially if they do manage to provide these contrary to your thoughts and hopes, as that may serve as a reminder and entitle them to pursue the debt all the way.

    Now you understand your options, the action you take is your gamble.!

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 10:01 AM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Yes

    Deny you owe the money and ask them to show you the original credit agreement documents

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 9:54 AM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    eastleighjim:

    Brewster

    Your debts become statute barred in January 2013.

    regards



    Based on that, denying the debt would seem my better option to try . Don't you think
    • Post Points: 35
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 9:24 AM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Brewster

    Your debts become statute barred in January 2013.

    regards

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Mar 18 2011, 7:33 AM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Lets have a thread update, 10 second what happened before thingy.

    I had debts that mostly started over 10 years ago. (roughly £18k)

    Jan 2005 My IVA started that covered these debts.

    Jan 2007 IVA officially failed - although on credit report always showed as satisfied.

    After it failed I got a statement from on creditor which was same balance as before IVA. I contacted them to find out why they informed
    me that no money had been received. Phoned IVA company and they confirmed no payments had been made to credits. My payments had only covered their fees.

    Creditor I contacted is not one that is chasing me any more.

    All debt defaulted over 6 years ago and all no longer show on my credit report. No CCJ ever proceeded on any of it. IVA also is no longer on credit report. My credit report is clean.

    I was firstly looking at this debt being statute barred. Then I was thinking for challenging these debt collection people ( 2 companies ) to prove I even owe the money. I have never acknowledged the debt to them.

    Judging by other forums - creditors won't have the original credit agreement from over 5 years - or its stored and inaccessible.

    So my thinking was to challenge that they can even prove I owe the debt and if they do prove it then just throw the statute barred thingy at them.

    I think my biggest concern is - is the debt 100% statute barred.
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Mar 17 2011, 10:13 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Brewster - You are now confusing the totally different issues of the status of debt(s) that you once considered and acknowledged as your own debt(s) by making payments towards them...... with the completely opposite side of the argument that the debt(s) were not valid because they haven't provided the necessary compliant credit agreements under different legislation (which is it to be.?).

    Otherwise these creditors may possibly just surprise you by forwarding the legal compliances that validate these alleged debts....what would you do then, if they do manage to forward legitimate copies of all your legally compliant agreements.?


    Can you answer this question. What date exactly did the old IVA fail and finally once and for all put this baby to rest.?

    If the IVA failed before March 2005 (Six years ago) then the debt(s) have now already become statute barred, in which case you already have the appropriate SB letters to send by recorded delivery.

    In summary - If it's well over Six years then send the SB letters, if on the other hand Six years is due very shortly....then wait until the Sixth anniversary of the failure before you send the SB notification letters.

    Failing that, you may continue to go around in circles...please don't send that letter below, it means nothing (all jumbled up & no longer criminal) and may only give them a good reason to have a laugh.!

    By the way there's a lot of information out there on other forums, but it is general info intended for others and not always specific or relevant to your own situation......so do be careful how you decipher and apply that general instruction to our own particular unique circumstances.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Mar 17 2011, 9:37 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Found this from another forum - I was thinking of doing this first to challenge it.


    To collection agency, in response to letters with the reference number : ********

    I have received a large amount of mail from Lowell Financial in supposed association to an alleged Capital One debt, in which your reference number is ********.

    I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

    1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

    2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

    3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

    Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

    As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

    Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
    Furthermore, letters and postcards which keep being sent to my property with remarks of agents will be calling, I therefore respectfully advise you take note of the following;

    As to your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, I understand that under OFT rules you can only come if you make an appointment.

    There is also an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission, the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

    Take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property, and if you do will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass.
    You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. If you persisted in your threat, I will obtain an injunction. I am however prepared to communicate by correspondence only should you wish.

    I look forward to a speedy reply from yourselves, and the prospect of a letter informing me that you have made a mistake, and that all letters alleging that owe such a debt will immediately cease, and that the matter will be fully closed.

    Yours
    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Mar 17 2011, 7:40 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Thanks Pincer for your input on this.

    I was also wondering about challenging debt collectors to prove I owe the debt in the first place. I see a few forums that suggest not acknowledging the debt and just replying my asking the debt collection agency to prove the validity of the debt.

    Is that an option maybe?
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, Mar 17 2011, 1:41 AM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Hi

    Interesting thread and an all to familiar story.

    I understand that between 30 & 40% of IVAs fail or never run their course for one reason or another often leaving the debtor paying hundreds and perhaps thousands of pounds in fees only to end up back at square one with their debts or worse..

    Staggering figures in my opinion and how long has this sort of thing been going on?

    Also I am not aware of many IVA Companies / Insolvency Practioners who then officially assist people with bankruptcy after an IVA fails (if this is the appropriate course of action) it would be interesting in some cases to see what reasons they would put at the back of the petition as to why their client was now going bankrupt..and just think if they went to the actual bankruptcy hearing with 'their client' and the District Judge asked to see them both:)

    Also I agree with exterminator.. I have not seen many IVA company reps come on 'genuine open forums' like this and actually debate or discuss the issue...well phenomenon really... you could say.

    I had to laugh at this link when I saw it on another forum -

    http://www.insolvencynews.com/article/show/Row-erupts-over-IVA-fee-capping

    IPs who "try Valiantly" to administer IVAs - "fair treatment on fees"....ok, reasonable arguments, but......

    What about the fees paid by people whos IVAs fail, what happens to them and the money they have paid?

    Maybe the word 'valiantly' takes on a whole new meaning here :)

    Come on guys..,this is a genuine open forum, don't ya hide now...lets be having you... perhaps you can help the O/P out a litte here.

    Pincer

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, Mar 16 2011, 6:22 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    Please provide supporting evidence on your erroneous point.

    Otherwise the failure to comply with the legal agreement contained within an IVA renders it an immediate failure, which makes the agreement legally null & void terminating it the minute that it fails. (** This is the point that creditors should either apply for the debtors bankruptcy or continue to legally pursue the debt.....Not to illegally pursue it Six + years after the IVA failure).

    If it wasn't the case, then that would mean creditors were no longer entitled to pursue a debt even by any other means, irrespective of the IVA's failure, within those first Six years of failure, simply because it was once registered within the same period, but failed. ........meaning people would just refuse to contribute and instead make the IVA fail.

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Wed, Mar 16 2011, 6:11 PM

    Re: Failed IVA, very old debt - can I be chased for it.

    I am afraid you are wrong. Once the IVA was approved creditors were prevented from pursuing their debts until the IVA terminated and therefore the 6 years could not start until the IVA was terminated. There is no loophole. It is irrelevant whether creditors got any money or not the fact is during the IVA they could not pursue their debt and therefore that cannot count as part of the 6 years. If it did debtors could drag IVA's out for 6 years and then say sorry you are all statute barred. Utter rubbish.
    • Post Points: 20
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