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Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

Last post Thu, Jun 11 2009, 1:55 PM by Scrapper. 36 replies.
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  •  Thu, Jun 11 2009, 1:55 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    So what are you doing on here then skywalker? Sorry your one of those people who hasn't got a life and spends all day on forums putting your 2 pennies worth in business that doesn't concern you. t******

    I lost my job after 24yrs in the City of London and I also have PPI protection for all of my borrowings, but do you think it's fair that EGG put my interest rate up from 19.9% to 26.9% overnight the minute I put in a claim and they should be able to get away with it.

    People only have themselves to blame for the mess they are in I agree, but the banks are also to blame as well. You see I worked in the banking industry all my life and over the last few years I have witnessed loans, cards etc etc being given out to all that applied and some of these people had been declared bankrupt and had credit ratings that were down the sh*tter. This was down to the banks being greedy which in turn bankrupted them and us as the taypayer have paid the price by losing our jobs and our taxes being used to bail them out.

    This in turn lead to company CEO's etc being paid extreme sums of cash for failure. Does that seem fair to you.

    I suppose all these MP expenses claims for mortgages that have been paid is OK with you as well.

    I have worked all my life and never asked anybody for any help so in total I've been paying tax and NI for 24yrs and my last year of working I was paying £3k per month to the government, but the minute I need help I'm entitled to nothing and you wonder why the lay person wants some pay back on these merchant bankers who still think they can do as they like after being bailed out.

    Someone has to fight back so unless you have anything constructive to say go and get back under your rock. Sorry you own a house.

    Scrapper

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Sun, May 24 2009, 10:25 AM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Hi Mate,

    Glad you take such an enlightened view.

    The only part of what you say that I am having trouble with is the "Credit limit" since the acts and regs do not state that the term need to be so described. The act and regs are even inconsistent on this. I am forced to wonder if a case would be so proven on the merit of so small a technicality

    I will read the case histories, one , I know, the other is new to me.

    My real concern is that we convey the message that this is a possibility, and not let others see it as a certainty.

    I may change my view once I have dug deeper into the cases since any appeal has the potential to proveide precedent, as I'm sure you know. The more higher court case history exists, the greater the probability of success, hence the Chester court activity, of course.

    Off to buy a bar-b-que now, apparently.

    S

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Sat, May 23 2009, 10:17 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Hi Stubie

    Why on earth would we not still be friends??? You express an opinion, I express mine, no problem. Opinions are knowledge, knowledge is good.

    Now the prescribed terms in the Egg agreement.

    There are several court cases where the use of any other term than 'credit' limit are deemed fatal, such that the term must in no way be mis-stated or capable of misinterpretation by the lay reader.

    See: Central Trust Plc V Spurway [2005] p24; WILSON & ANR. - and - HURSTANGER LTD [2006] p33

    'Approved' and 'individual' when used under the heading Limit has been shown to be not acceptable a prescribed term, they are not synonymous with the term 'credit'. Both cases were subsequently upheld on appeal.

    The interest rate for cash advances (this being a multiple agreement) not being shown is fatal.

    I appreciate the further flaws are not in themselves fatal, but are included just to add weight to the case and may pursuade a wavering judge.

    As I've said, these arguments were successful very recently when used by the claimant against Egg.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sat, May 23 2009, 2:04 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Hi Basa,

    Back from shop with new keyboard.

    In general, I would have to say that creditors who have lost in such instances, apart from omission of the interest rate, prescribed term, are either, poorly researched, poorly served by council, or have taken a concious decision not to contest, unless you are suggesting that the above list be entirely missing from all agreements.

    If a prescribed term is missing then the other minor infractions are of no relevance since the prior omission renders the agreement unenforcible ast law.

    regarding the credit limit, the intent of the legislation is to determine and notify a sum of money, or the source of this information and the concept that such a sum constitutes a constraint. The prescibed term, as such, is the sum of money, not the terminology. It is worth noting that within these regulation and the act they serve the term is variously described and can be shown to be the same in intent.

    The omission of "charges on default", since not a prescribed term would , of itself, render the agreement enforcible on the order, not otherwise.

    The no-interspersing section of the regulations allows for references to terms and conditions, if the interspersed term can be shown to be contained within the T&Cs then the inclusion, whilst a technical infringement without the appropriate reference, is not of itself an infringement of the regulations. The non interspersing regulations are not prescribed and would only render the agrrement improperly executed.

    OK, you are probably already screaming venom at your monitor so lets consider what I'm trying to say, and why.

    1 8 people have contributed to this thread, whereas 1113 have viewed. Most people look, take the information and leave, unnanounced. We have a duty to offer a balanced view so the right perspective is provided to those who seek no clarification.

    2 People have succeeded (excellent, and good luck to them), I suspect people have failed too. As I noted above, there are many reasons for suuccess and failure, without knowing the details, it is difficult to know the true interpretation of the information provided. It may be that a person has spent £300 pounds in the last 5 years but re-paid £2000, due to interst. I f the balance of the account is £500 then is it worth expending on court time and preparation. Whereas the individual who has £20K of mostly expenditure on a short termed account is well worth pursuit. Each account is taken on its respective merit.

    3 As long as an agreement bears the prescribed terms and the signature of the debtor, it is enforcible on an order. It could be written on the back of a cigarette packet.

    4 The court MAY give an order and MAY vary the terms, this is the discretion of the court. If all the mentioned shortfalls occur on a single document, prescribed terms notwithstanding, the court may determine that the agreement is so fundamentally and generally flawed as to be unenforcible.

    5 Most cases of this type are heard in the lesser courts, so are not precient. This is a two edged sword.

    Hope this helps, it is only my opinion and I am happy to enter constructive discourse in relation to the content.

    As for you, Basa, I hope we can still be friends.

    I would like for people to leave this site with a balanced view of the situation. We would be wrong if we urged people to rush to litigation where a case is weak, similarly we would fail our duty if we did not support a strong case.

    Each on its own merit.

    There is no substitute for knowing your rights, being able to interpret the information given and recognising when support is necessary.

    S

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sat, May 23 2009, 10:59 AM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhi

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    wwwwrt sonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    ffffff***********************

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, May 22 2009, 11:40 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    I thought so x like most opions from the ccc's they make no sense x
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Fri, May 22 2009, 6:54 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    MrsGuyan2B:

    veloxuk:

    Pay what you owe, in this climate there are too many people trying to get out of what they owe. Then when jobs are lost etc this is the type of thing that causes companys to break down.

    Its like going to shell and fueling your car with fuel, but the cashier doesnt give you a recipt does that mean you dont have to pay?

    A receipt is confirmation that you have paid!

    Well said Mrs G.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, May 22 2009, 11:01 AM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Stubie-One:

    Hi Basa,

    .....In general, however, Egg do seem to be better, by some considerable margin, than any of the others.

    I have seen exceptions, but as a generalisation, this is my experience.

    ........

    S

    Hi Stubs

    From my studies of the Egg credit card agreements typically dated 2000-2004 the following problems seem to apply:

    The agreement does not contain a term stating the ‘credit limit’, the agreement uses the terms ‘Limit’, ‘Approved Limit’ and ‘Individual Limit’, which are not prescribed terms.

    The agreement does not contain the prescribed term for the 'interest rate' for the cash advance

    The information for ‘charges on default’ is not directly shown nor referred to in the agreement

    The information regarding variations in APR set out within Para 3-19 of schedule 1 should be shown as a whole and not interspersed with other information

    The information regarding Repayments set out within Para 3-19 of schedule 1 should be shown as a whole and not interspersed with other information

    That's mine (and others) take and has been used successfully. What do you think?

    • Post Points: 35
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 11:40 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 2:24 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Stubie-One:

    Hi,

    What is the thread called, can't find it

    S

    "Unintelligable agreement" (It's at No 2 spot at the moment!!)

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 2:18 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Hi,

    What is the thread called, can't find it

    S

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 2:00 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Stubie-One:

    Hi Basa,

    I'm happy to discuss this and any other thread, will try to hop over to your MBNA thread but it may be later tonight, sorry, preparing a court defence at the mo.

    On the egg thing, please don't take my comments personally, they were intended as a generalisation, nothing more.

    S

    Nothing personal taken m8!!

    PS: I haven't identified the thread as MBNA but take it as read !

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 1:53 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Hi Basa,

    I'm happy to discuss this and any other thread, will try to hop over to your MBNA thread but it may be later tonight, sorry, preparing a court defence at the mo.

    On the egg thing, please don't take my comments personally, they were intended as a generalisation, nothing more.

    S

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 12:54 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Stubie-One:

    Hi Basa,

    There are even people who have got an enforcible agreement from MBNA........only a few, though

    :-)

    S

    I wish in that case you could look at my new thread .. please!

    (I'll get back to you on the Egg arguments later if I may)

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, May 21 2009, 12:28 PM

    Re: Egg Card Dispute, DCA letter and no CCA?

    Hi Basa,

    I thought you might.

    In general, however, Egg do seem to be better, by some considerable margin, than any of the others.

    I have seen exceptions, but as a generalisation, this is my experience.

    There are even people who have got an enforcible agreement from MBNA........only a few, though

    :-)

    S

    • Post Points: 35
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