malc - eon:

The Heatwise part of your metering sits alongside the standard meter, regardless of whether this is single rate or Economy 7.

Your water and heating will be wired into the Heatwise part of the meter. This will continue to give you 10 hours of off peak electricity at the following times.

3 hours in the afternoon between 1pm and 4.30pm.

2 hours in the evening between 5.30pm and 10pm

5 hours at night between 12am and 7am.

Units used during these times by your storage heaters/water immersion will continue to be charged at the lower rates shown on your bill as afternoon and evening.

Now you have had the Economy 7 removed, all other units used at night for things like lighting, TV or any other domestic appliance will be charged at standard daily rates.

I'm not an expert on the very secretive world of Heatwise and similar products. However I would have expected storage heaters to be wired into a separate fuseboard which was only energised during the E7 economy hours. Given that E7 has been removed how and when will the storage heater fuseboard be energised?

Not totally sure what Simona wants to achieve and not totally convinced that the storage heaters will continue to work without the assistance and advice of an electrician.

Hopefully will be able to confirm that all will be OK and its just my lack of understanding of Heatwise.

Hi Jalexa

I, too, am no expert on Heatwise metering; so I have spoken to the section who deal with these matters.

I am not sure from Simona's post whether the meter has been changed or not. It could be we have simply changed the tariff on our system for single rate billing. This is quite possible and does not require a meter change. If this is the case, then the wiring in the property will not have been affected.

If the Economy 7 meter has been changed to single rate but the Heatwise part has been left in place then our engineer should have wired the new meter to the existing unit. This also will not affect the previous set up.

However, if the entire metering set up has been changed then Simona will need to have the water/heating checked over by an independent electrician. This tends to be the case with new builds as the design of Heatwise has recently been changed.

As I have posted above, if in doubt, always ask an independent electrician to check it out.

Malc

hi everyone

thank you for all your replies

It makes more sense to me now ;)

Just my tariff was changed from economy 7 tarrif to standard rate. there wasnt any meter change as they would charge me £50 for removing heatwise part. As i have been told I could either have Economy 7 with heatwise plan or Standard with heatwise plan. They dont need to change meter for this as Malc said they just change the tarrif in the system.

So i hope everything is ok now and will not cause any trouble for me :)

Thanks again

Simona

Simona1404:

It makes more sense to me now ;)

Well I wish I could say the same. I hate these badly documented proprietory tariffs. Something is troubling me. Hopefully malc - eon will get back and correct me, maybe tomorrow or next week now.

My somewhat simplistic understanding is that Heatwise is E.ON's (formerly Powergen's) version of something that is generically called E10 elsewhere. Usually more suited to electric boiler wet heating systems than modern storage heaters which are designed for 7 hours charge. What I do not understand is how an installation can be Heatwise and E7 at the same time (unless you had a Heatwise ("E10") installation (wiring and metering) and also an entirely separate E7 installation (wiring and metering).

Sorry I have a nagging doubt that if its a "free" tariff only change something is going to be charged differently. As long as you understand what that's fine.

malc - eon:

5 hours at night between 12am and 7am.

Too add to my recent reply to Simona's post, the thing I find baffling about Heatwise and E7 together is that Heatwise (among other time periods) provides lower rate heating for "5 hours between 12am and 7am" and E7 provides 7 hours lower rate heating between (typically and variably) 23:00 and 08:30. I know that additionally E7 provides all electricty at the lower rate during that period, but in relation to the heating supply which tariff (Heatwise or E7) has precedence? If E7, then the heater supply would be available for 12 hours per day in total. That's great in one sense but modern storage heaters are designed for a 7 hour charge.

If the Heatwise times have precedence then E7 only provides lower cost non heating supply for 7 hours at the cost of higher than standard rate for 17 hours per day. On the face of it not a very good deal and smart for Simona to get rid of it.

Have I got that right?

There's a difference between Economy 10 and Heatwise, not much but a difference.

Economy 10 generally gave 7 hours between midnight and 7am and a single 3 hour boost throughout the day to be used at the customer's disrection. Whereas Heatwise as has been documented has a more regimented timeframe for the energy usage.

The difference in wiring is basically a set of "timeswitches". In very simplistic terms there'll be a set of these switches on the heating elements switching heating to off peak at the pre-defined times, while all other electricicty goes through the normal circuitry, as well as the standard timeswitch switching all energy to off-peak at midnight and back again at 7am. (I wish you could draw diagrams on here at times).

Hi Jalexa

As Mynewt says, Heatwise is a different tariff to Economy 10 albeit with a lot of similarities. Both are designed for customers with storage and water heating.

Whereas Economy 10 is widely available throughout the country, Heatwise is restricted to the East Midlands region.

As I have said previously, I am no expert on the technicalities of Heatwise but I have spoken to our metering people about this set up.

There is a unit which sits next to the meter. This controls the Heatwise part of the set up in the way Mynewt has described. The heating/water circuitry at the property needs to be wired into the Heatwise section through a consumer unit.

This controls the times the heating/water are operational and charges as per the times I have posted previously. All other electrical usage (lights, appliances, etc) continue to go through the standard circuitry and are charged independently at the normal prices, either single rate or Economy 7.

I hope my limited technical knowledge makes this a little clearer but let me know if I can help further.

Malc

malc - eon:

Thanks for the feedback. I *think* you are saying that in the case of Heatwise plus E7, the night low rate period would be the Heatwise 5 hours not the E7 7 hours.

E7 plus Heatwise would give all non-heating circuits lower rate for 7 hours at night at the expense of all non-heating circuits being charged for the rest of the day at the E7 day rate which is higher than the standard day rate.

Difficult to see that would benefit many customers unless they had very high non-heating use during the E7 night period only. Possibly true once upon a time but modern appliances are much more efficient now.

It's a strange combination IMHO, because it links the "comfort or convenience" aspects of Heatwise with the "inconvenience" of having washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers etc only working at night.

Jalexa:

malc - eon:

Thanks for the feedback. I *think* you are saying that in the case of Heatwise plus E7, the night low rate period would be the Heatwise 5 hours not the E7 7 hours.

E7 plus Heatwise would give all non-heating circuits lower rate for 7 hours at night at the expense of all non-heating circuits being charged for the rest of the day at the E7 day rate which is higher than the standard day rate.

Difficult to see that would benefit many customers unless they had very high non-heating use during the E7 night period only. Possibly true once upon a time but modern appliances are much more efficient now.

It's a strange combination IMHO, because it links the "comfort or convenience" aspects of Heatwise with the "inconvenience" of having washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers etc only working at night.

From my understanding Heatwise isn't a *new* tarriff and has been around since the archaic times you mentioned, so you're quite right in pointing out usage trends may (and have) changed somewhat since then. This is where being able to flip from E7+heawise to UR+heatwise is so useful, and ues another example of "comfort and conevience versus cost and monetary efficiency"

Hi Jalexa

Heatwise runs alongside the standard meter, whether this is a single rate or Economy 7.

Only electric storage heaters and the water heating can be connected to the Heatwise element of a meter. Therefore, the 5 hours of heating at night will be charged at the lower Heatwise rate.

All other usage goes through the standard meter and will be charged at the rates as per the tariff the customer has chosen.

If the customer opts for Heatwise + E7, then all non-heating usage during the 7 night time hours will be charged at the night rate. Outside of the 7 hour night period, all other non-heating usage will be charged at the day time rates for E7 tariffs.

Should the customer choose Heatwise without Economy 7 then all non-heating usage will be charged at daytime rates. As you say, these will be cheaper than the day rates on an E7 tariff.

Hope this clears this up Jalexa.

Malc