Hi candy - cat

Your figures are spot on. Given the pattern of usage outlined, Economy 7 is definitely costing you more than a single rate tariff.

You need to be using a higher percentage of electricity overnight to benefit from Economy 7. If the usage pattern advised is typical of your ongoing consumption, then you are not benefiting from your current set up.

Just give us a call if you would like to switch to a single rate tariff. You do not need to have the meter changed. We will add the day and night readings together and charge at single rate prices.

Hope this helps, candy - cat. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help.

Malc

I read through all the messages and found them extremly helpful. It seems to me that Economy 7 with Heatwise might have costed us more money than the Standard with Heatwise. So, we did a simple calculation based on our bill. The calculation excludeed the heatwise part since it would cost the same in both cases.

Our usage of electrity for day time is 242 primary unit, 494 secondary unit, and 58 unit for night time. Under Economy 7, it cost 30.89p/unit for day primary units, 12.33p/unit for secondary units, and 4.58p/unit for night units. Therefore, the total cost is (242x30.89+494x12.33+58x4.58)/100 = £138.32 . However, if under the standard tariff, it cost 21.021p/unit for primary units and 10.5525p/unit for other units, so the total cost is (242x21.021+(494+58)x10.5525)/100 = £109.11, nearly £30 less than Economy 7!

The main reason is that the Economy 7 charge higher rate for the day primary units and cheaper rate for night units. But since heating and hot water is in seperated catagory, the night units we used are much less than the day units, and it cannot even out the higher cost for day primary unit.

Many thanks for the kind words Jalexa, they are much appreciated.

I agree with both you and Mynewt, the OP might be able to save money with other tariffs/suppliers. However, to take advantage of the full range of products on the market, they would need alterations to their metering set up.

It is possible to remove the Heatwise part of the meter so they are eligible for other products but I would advise caution. The Heatwise part will be wired into the heating/water system and removing it may not be beneficial. I would ask an independent electrician for advice before doing this.

If the electrician is happy the storage/water heating will be ok or is able to carry out any remedial work which may be necessary, then we will be happy to change the meter.

All costs for the electrician will be the customer's responsibility. We will also charge £50 to change the meter.

Once the meter has been standardised, they will be able to switch to most of our other tariffs or change supplier if they wish.

Alternatively, they can go on to a single rate tariff now for all the non-storage/water heating usage without changing the meter/circuitry. This would give them lower daytime unit costs but they would lose the cheaper night rate.

As has been said earlier, the OP needs to evaluate their usage over a period of time to see if they would benefit from this.

Malc

You may want to evalauate your energy usage and see if Heatwise is working for you, there is the option of having your heatwise meter exchanged (potentially at your cost) for an E10 or E7 meter. If you're able to make effective and safe use of an E7 you would then be eligable for the whole range of E.on tarriffs (and those of other suppliers) including online tarriffs where generally far larger savings can be made.

Please don't rush into this descion - it may be worth speaking with E.on's energy efficiency and consumption teams first. But potentially dispite any cost a great way to reduce your energy bills.

Glad the info has helped a little cloudsix.

We might be able to help you cut back on your general consumption, too. Have a word with our Energy Efficiency team. Give them a list of your appliances and they will be happy to advise of ways you may be able to save.

Ask for a copy of a booklet called '100 ways to save money by saving energy.' It's free and contains lots of energy saving tips.

Have a look at our website; particularly the interactive house, energy menu and Winter Advice Bureau. More good tips here.

You might also be interested in the 10:10 campaign. This is a climate change campaign aimed at helping customers reduce their energy consumption by 10 per cent by the end of 2010. Details are on our website.

Hope this helps and, again, let me know if I can help further as happy to do so.

Malc

cloudsix:

I guess this is the only tariff available to me as well?

That's a 5* reply from malc - eon.

I have little to add except it hasn't been stated what type of heating system you have. I'm assuming you are in a relatively new build where the developer matched the Economy 7 + Heatwise tariff to the actual heating system installed. Heatwise (but not Economy 7) is proprietory to Eon. Whether another tariff (Economy 7 alone for example) would be more cost effective really depends on the heating system design.

Given that you used 1700 kWhrs of Heatsave at 0.0601p per kWhr in the period measured it does not look likely that a different tariff would be both cheaper and equally comfortable.

Thanks Malc,

That definitely clears things up a bit. I guess I just need to pay a bit more attention to what is using electricity. As the storage heaters and water tank are wired on a different circuit I assume this will be fine to continue how I was using them. It's just everything else that I'll need to pay special attention to!

Thanks again Malc, this has helped a lot.

Many thanks for the quick response cloudsix. Thought it might help if I gave you a bit of background about your metering set up.

Heatwise is an off peak tariff designed for all electric properties with storage heaters. They give 10 hours of storage and water heating per day at a cheaper rate. The heatwise part sits alongside your two rate Economy 7 meter.

Heatwise is only available in the East Midlands (area 11).

Electricity used for anything other than storage and water heating is charged through the Economy 7 meter. This will be at our standard Economy 7 rates where electricity used at night is cheaper. All units used in this way are currently charged as follows.

The first 225 kWh used per quarter at 32.435p per kWh. This is the primary day rate.

All remaining daytime usage at 12.947p per kWh. This is the secondary day rate.

Night units at 4.809p per kWh.

Storage and water heating used during the times advised in earlier posts are charged as follows.

Afternoon units at 6.101p per kWh.

Night/Evening units at 6.101p per kWh.

A daily standing charge also applies to the heatwise part of the set up. This is currently 9.618p per day.

All the above prices include VAT.

It is possible to have additional water heating outside of the heatwise times. Another hour of hot water is available by pressing the orange boost button on the front of the meter. All electricity used during this time is recorded as Boost Units and is charged at standard daytime rates unless the boost runs into the cheaper rate period.

From the info given in your latest post, you have used the following electricity.

Daytime - 906 kWh. Of this, 274 kWh will be charged at the primary daytime rate (32.435p per kWh) and 632 kWh at the secondary daytime rate (12.947p per kWh).

To arrive at this split, the annual primary threshold of 900 kWh is divided by 365 days and then multiplied by the time covered by the bill. In your case, this will be 111 days (30 September 09 to 19 January 10).

Night - 464 kWh. All this will be charged at the Economy 7 night rate (4.809p per kWh).

Boost - this function has not been used.

Heatwise afternoon - 619 kWh. All this will be charged at the heatwise lower rate (6.101p per kWh).

Heatwise night/evening - 1108 kWh. All this will be charged at the heatwise lower rate (6.101p per kWh).

As above, the period covered by the bill is 111 days. Therefore, the standing charge will be 111 days at 9.618p per day.

Hope this makes your bill a little clearer cloudsix. Give me a shout if you need any more details as will be happy to help.

Malc

malc - eon:

Hi cloudsix

Can I confirm a couple of things with you?

Have you taken the readings from the bill or from your meter?

If from your bill, please advise the reading description for each individual figure. I'm assuming they are as follows.

Day rate.

Night rate.

Heatwise Boost.

Heatwise Evening/Weekend.

Heatwise Afternoon/Night.

Are they actual readings or estimates? If actual, there will be a letter A after each reading, or the letter E if estimates.

If taken from your meter, please advise the number of the display screen each figure refers to. They will be between 01 and 05.

Also, can you tell me the actual dates the two sets of readings refer to?

Sorry for all the questions cloudsix but I don't want to give you duff info. Once I have these details I will give you a more comprehensive answer to your question.

Malc

Hi Malc, thanks for the reply -

the readings are actual readings taken by me (I have sent in my actual readings to EON and updated the bill).

I've actually just found a more in depth bill online, and the prices do seem to reflect more upon what I've used.

Perhaps it'd be beneficial to me to know what is classed as

Day primary units
Day secondary units
Night units
Boost units
Afternoon units
Night/ Evening units

How do these come into play? (these are what is stated on my bill for the numbers below)

Day 21200 read by us 30/09/09 and 22106 read by us 19/01/10
Night 14718 read by us 30/09/09 and 15182 read by us 19/01/10
Boost 0 read by us 30/09/09 and 0 read by us 19/01/10
Afternoon 16055 read by us 30/09/09 and 16674 read by us 19/01/10
Night/Evening 22034 read by us 30/09/09 and 23142 read by us 19/01/10

I hope this information is more useful.

Thanks!

Hi cloudsix

Can I confirm a couple of things with you?

Have you taken the readings from the bill or from your meter?

If from your bill, please advise the reading description for each individual figure. I'm assuming they are as follows.

Day rate.

Night rate.

Heatwise Boost.

Heatwise Evening/Weekend.

Heatwise Afternoon/Night.

Are they actual readings or estimates? If actual, there will be a letter A after each reading, or the letter E if estimates.

If taken from your meter, please advise the number of the display screen each figure refers to. They will be between 01 and 05.

Also, can you tell me the actual dates the two sets of readings refer to?

Sorry for all the questions cloudsix but I don't want to give you duff info. Once I have these details I will give you a more comprehensive answer to your question.

Malc

Jalexa:

cloudsix:

I'll look at the figures if I have time but my first observation is that £44/month is unlikely to be enough in an all-electric house especially during the winter heating season. The implied "£100/month", would not be unusual at this time of year.

Unfortunately all your turning lights off etc will have little effect because room and water heating costs will predominate.

What you should do is get a handle on your usage by taking daily readings for a week and then weekly readings for a month and then keep on top of your quarterly bill or statement by providing customer readings and requesting the bill is re-issued.

Ok, thanks for that. I guess this is the only tariff available to me as well?

I don't really understand what the readings mean to be honest, so even if I did take the readings I wouldn't know what it all meant!

Thanks again.

cloudsix:

I'll look at the figures if I have time but my first observation is that £44/month is unlikely to be enough in an all-electric house especially during the winter heating season. The implied "£100/month", would not be unusual at this time of year.

Unfortunately all your turning lights off etc will have little effect because room and water heating costs will predominate.

What you should do is get a handle on your usage by taking daily readings for a week and then weekly readings for a month and then keep on top of your quarterly bill or statement by providing customer readings and requesting the bill is re-issued.

Hello,

I am also trying to figure out what all this Economy7/Heatwise means. I've been given a bill of £180 on top of the £44 a month I already pay! Does this sound right? I've only been in the property for 3-4 months. Perhaps someone could look at my reading from the date I moved in, and the present readings and make sense of them for me, please?

Move in date:

21171

14697

00000

22034

16055

Present readings:

22106

15182

00000

23142

16674

If anyone could make sense of this that would be great, I work during the day, always turn off all lights and plug sockets and get back at around 6. Surely I can't be spending that much?

Thanks for any help you can give!

Hi Jalexa

Heatwise runs alongside the standard meter, whether this is a single rate or Economy 7.

Only electric storage heaters and the water heating can be connected to the Heatwise element of a meter. Therefore, the 5 hours of heating at night will be charged at the lower Heatwise rate.

All other usage goes through the standard meter and will be charged at the rates as per the tariff the customer has chosen.

If the customer opts for Heatwise + E7, then all non-heating usage during the 7 night time hours will be charged at the night rate. Outside of the 7 hour night period, all other non-heating usage will be charged at the day time rates for E7 tariffs.

Should the customer choose Heatwise without Economy 7 then all non-heating usage will be charged at daytime rates. As you say, these will be cheaper than the day rates on an E7 tariff.

Hope this clears this up Jalexa.

Malc

Jalexa:

malc - eon:

Thanks for the feedback. I *think* you are saying that in the case of Heatwise plus E7, the night low rate period would be the Heatwise 5 hours not the E7 7 hours.

E7 plus Heatwise would give all non-heating circuits lower rate for 7 hours at night at the expense of all non-heating circuits being charged for the rest of the day at the E7 day rate which is higher than the standard day rate.

Difficult to see that would benefit many customers unless they had very high non-heating use during the E7 night period only. Possibly true once upon a time but modern appliances are much more efficient now.

It's a strange combination IMHO, because it links the "comfort or convenience" aspects of Heatwise with the "inconvenience" of having washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers etc only working at night.

From my understanding Heatwise isn't a *new* tarriff and has been around since the archaic times you mentioned, so you're quite right in pointing out usage trends may (and have) changed somewhat since then. This is where being able to flip from E7+heawise to UR+heatwise is so useful, and ues another example of "comfort and conevience versus cost and monetary efficiency"