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Double bill for gas - help!

Last post Mon, Dec 15 2008, 2:51 PM by Bez. 10 replies.
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  •  Mon, Dec 15 2008, 2:51 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Hi Loopylou - yes, I have now received my refund. However, this took numerous phone calls and demands to speak to a manager at NP. The first customer services manager promised to refund in full within 7-10 days. On day 5 I decided to check progress. A different manager explained that the first manager had followed an incorrect process (also the first manager wasn't a manager at all but would be when fully trained!!). Rather than activate a refund the first manager had actioned a 'nil bill'. That nil bill would take between 4-6 weeks to process. I explained that this was totally unacceptable so eventually I secured a full refund. However, I have not had any breakdown to show how the details of the refund nor any explanation of why this happened in the first place. My complaint continues....

    I suggest you try tel: 01642 692203 and ask to speak to a manager.

    Good luck and please keep us posted!

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Wed, Dec 10 2008, 7:50 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Hi Bez,

    I have just been searching the net as i also have the same problem as you - arranged to change suppliers from BG to NP for gas and electric. Electric has been fine but gas has been nightmare. Turns out they have the wrong gas meter number for my property, no fault of mine. I have been paying monthly direct debits to NP for them to supply me but they never have - however this took a VERY long time to even get them to admit this. They were even saying that the National Grid details were wrong!! They told me they would give me a refund for the money i had paid but after a couple of weeks with still no sign of a refund i phoned again, they told me that they had applied for a refund but it had been refered back to their dept as "I was not a customer of theirs with that gas meter number"!!! (well obviously- thats why i want a refund!) He reapplied for the refund again and said it would be with me 7-10 days time. Still no refund. It has taken numerus amounts of phone calls to try and sort this situation out, and has now been ongoing for 6 months. I was told i couldn't cancel my DD as i would get bills through and have to pay them (even though they do not, and never have, supplied me) because the dispute had not been sorted and they were still looking into if they have the wrong gas meter number. I then had a letter come through to say they were going to come and read the gas meter to check the details. The man knocked at the door and was slightly confused as the gas meter number did not match upto his records. WHAT A SURPRISE! He said he would report back to NP of the situation. That was over 2 weeks ago so yesterday i decided to phone NP to see where my refund had gone. After explaining the whole story again for the umteenth time, to yet another person (they do not seem to keep any record of customer details and history on their systems!) I was told that they hadn't had the information through from the man who came to check my meter as of yet, and it could take up until MARCH for me to get a refund!!!!!! The lady on the other end of the phone then had the cheek to say that if they gave me a refund and i was wrong, then i would have to pay the money back to them! They have £200 of my money which would be very handy around this time of year - i also have to continue paying BG for the gas that they acctually do supply me. NP have no problem taking your money off of you but are very reluctant to give it back! I think they must have the WORST customer service ever! Or just so stupid that they cant follow up 1 job at a time. I would never advise anyone to go with NP as they are just useless.

    Did u ever recieve the refund from them? I am wondering what to do next about the situation. any advice from anyone? would be much appreciated. Thanks

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Nov 30 2008, 9:28 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Gabriel - thank you so much. This is so helpful. I will use this in my response to BG. As for NP, I'm not sure of my legal standing however, I think they have acted erroneously in taking money from me for services they haven't ever provided. I will seek advice from Customer Direct. Once again, many thanks and I can't wait to see if my refund from NP arrives tomorrow.....

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sat, Nov 29 2008, 9:45 AM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Hi,

    I found this..

    "The code of Practice for Accurate bills (the Code) has been developed by the Energy Retail Association (ERA) with POwergen, British Gas, EDF Energy, npower and Scottish Power to address action raised in Ofgem's response to the Billing Super Complaint for domestic customers.

    These companies all support the independently-audited Code of Practice and are committed to the Code as a minimum standard of service for customers. The Code states that:

    "From the 1st July 2006 where the supplier has been at fault in not billing a domestic customer the supplier will not send a bill which includes energy consumed more than 2 years previous to the bill being issued. From 1st July 2007 this period will reduce to 1 year" (Clause 3.5)

    This Code is effective from 1 July 2006.

    This policy does not apply to

    • Business customers
    • Customers paying on a prepayment meter (there is a separate policy for PPM)
    • Customers obtaining energy illegally (e.g. interfering with their meter)


    2.1 Energy Consumption

    2.1.1 A bill has not been sent in two years
    Where the supplier is at fault in not billing a customer in the previous two years, we will not bill a customer for more than two years worth of consumption unless it's in the customer's favour; the consumption relating to the oldest period (i.e. the period older than two years) will be withdrawn.

    For the purpose of 2.1.1, the supplier is at fault where they have made no attempt to bill or communicate with an existing customer during the previous 24 months.

    Specific exclusions

    The supplier is not at fault where

    • A new customer has failed to notify the supplier that they are living in the property and we have sent letters to the address or we have continued communicating with the previous occupier
    • The property is newly built and the supplier is unaware of its usage
    • The customer has deliberately taken steps to avoid a bill being sent


    2.1.2 An inaccurate bill has been sent previously
    Where the supplier is at fault in under-billing a customer by sending inaccurate bills, when issuing a corrected one, the supplier will not collect for any additional consumption (i.e. the shortfall between what was bills and what was used) that is more than two years old. This difference will be withdrawn if applicable.

    Specific exclusions

    The supplier is not at fault if

    • The energy billed previously was based on incorrect information and the correct information was not available to them at the time (e.g. technical specifications of the meter (such as number of dials))
    • For technical reasons, a bill issued previously has to be withdrawn and reissued


    However, in these cases, the supplier will review each case individually and may apply a "poor service" adjustment to the account if it is appropriate.

    For the purpose of 2.1.2, the supplier is not at fault if they can demonstrate that they have taken all of the following actions:

    • A. Read or attempted to read the meter at the premises within the last 24 months
    • B. Provided opportunities for the customer to submit their own meter reading at any time on any day; and
    • C. Any bills sent to the customer are clearly indicated as estimates (if applicable) and that these have been based on any previous history, or (if not available) on average consumption for a similar property

    **************

    And This Below

    "The Code of Practice for Accurate Bills (the “Billing Code”) was launched in July 2006 along-side the Energy Ombudsman.

    Five of the main energy supply companies in the UK have signed up to the Billing Code, namely British Gas, npower, EDF Energy, E.ON Powergen and Scottish Power. The Billing Code provides consumers with additional protection over and above that required by the regulator Ofgem for accurate and informative billing.

    The Code includes a requirement for consumers to be protected from debt where the supplier is at fault for not billing energy supply. Where the supplier is at fault, consumers cannot be back-billed beyond 12 months from the date on any subsequent bill.

    The Billing Code Governance is undertaken through the Billing Code Governing Board with one representative from each member. The governance rules require Code Members to comply with the Code and to be subject to the disciplinary procedures set out in the Code. The Energy Retail Association has appointed a Code Manager to carry out the supervision, administration and day-to-day operation of the Billing Code.

    The Code Manager acts independently of all Members in operating the Billing Code, putting into place monitoring procedures regarding Member performance, ensuring corrective action where agreed performance standards are not met and setting sanctions consistent with the Code.

    In addition an annual audit of individual Member’s compliance with the Code is carried out by the Code Auditor an independent body appointed by governing Board employing a firm of registered auditors. KPMG were appointed as Code Auditor in August 2006.

    Supporting the Code’s governance framework is the Code Panel whose members are independent and come from a variety of backgrounds, including consumer representation and the wider business field. The Panel is the means whereby appeals from Code Members against decisions of the Code Manager will be heard, and it will also take an overview of the operation of the Code and put forward recommendations.

    Since the Billing Code’s inauguration, much work has been done with its Members to ensure that Members have appropriate procedures and processes in place which enable them and their Billing Operations and Customer Services to comply with the Code. The ERA works closely with its Members who are continuously working to improve billing practices across the industry."

    ********************

    As a footnote to all this, Scottish and Southern Energy (the other of the big six suppliers) have not signed up to this code as they have their own customer charter (available to view on their website). They were back-billing for only one year long before this code was put into place and their charter goes further than the above mentioned code.

    I doubt you would be referred to consumer focus to be honest, unless your classed as vulnerable or in danger of getting cut off. You can't refer your self unfortunately. Similarly, the Ombudsman would at least have expected you to have followed the companies complaints handling procedures first before they would consider your case.

    Consumer direct can tell you how to do this, or you should be able to view the companies complaint handling statements online. I found npower's, but b/gas, as usual, don't want to make life that easy.

    In relation to the 7-10 days / 4-6 weeks. - npower have taken over the incorrect supply by the sounds of things, and now must to an "erroneous transfer" to return the supply they thought was yours back to where it came from. This process can take 4-6 weeks, but you shouldn't need to wait until this is completed to get your money back. They can issue a refund in the meantime, which will probably take a week or so (7-10 days)

    Reference.

    http://www.npower.com/web/At_home/customer_service/contact_us/WCMS_003295

    http://www.energy-retail.org.uk/AbouttheCode.html

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Nov 28 2008, 11:27 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Dear All - Thank you for all your helpful responses and support. Apologies if I've mis-led you but I'm the third owner occupier of this address (the house is approx 8 years old). BG have now billed me and does appear that the amount owed to me by NP will almost cover the bill - almost...In additon, BG have sent an additional bill to "The occupier" for a short period (approx 5 months) before I moved in. BG told me to ignore this. I now await the refund by NP which is due next Mon. However, I'm not confident that it will arrive. NP have once again given confusing info - one 'manager' advises the refund has been processed as an account closure so the refund should be in my bank a/c within 7-10 days. However, when I checked this at a later date a different 'manager' advised me that the first manager had in face processed the refund as a 'nil bill' which could take 4-6 weeks.

    I have asked BG to consider time to pay. BG advise that they can offer only up to 12 months direct debit payments (to pay this bill for 2 years) and that is on the understanding that I remain a customer of BG. Otherwise I have to pay the bill within 3 months. I tried to find a BG Code of Practise for 'back billing'. I could not. The BG Customer Services advisor said that she wasn't aware of any Code and her manager could consider a 10% reduction

    As you say, I think my next steps are to approach Consumer Direct for advice and consider whether escalation is appropriate (to Customer Focus/Ombudsman?).

    I'm not sure how binding is the the Ofgem ruling for back billing - can anyone advise?

    Bez

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Nov 28 2008, 8:40 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    I appreciate she is not trying to get out of paying and i would not have mentioned Ofgem's back billing charter or consumer direct in one of my previous posts if I didn't think there was fault on behalf of the providers/developers involved.

    What I did want to do is make Bez aware of the relevant legislation, arguments she is likely to encounter if the bill/excess is challanged, and the energy ombudsman's view on payment for services she has received.

    The reason i mentioned consumer direct and so on is because i believe there has been a customer service failing on behalf of both npower and b/gas.. one, if not both of them should address this and i believe that CD can provide her with relevent information to her circumstances, not to mention provide her with the means to escalate the situation within b/gas and npower themselves.

    I agree with what you say Brian, but it's just a little more complicated than that is what I was trying to say. You don't have to have written or agreed to anything, simply owning the property and using the fuel is the basis of a deemed contract.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Fri, Nov 28 2008, 10:18 AM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Gabriel

    I agree but only so far. Suppliers do appear as if by magic. The developer must have enetered into a contract (written or verbal I agree) in order for the supply to be metered. The usual process on commercial developments is to do so with a framework agreement. These vary from supplier to supplier but generally require a customer registration form to be completed. These generally state that "you (ie the developer) will be billed for this site until the customer details below are completed". If the developer did not complete the change of tenancy or BG did not act on it I do not know.

    Bez is not trying to avoid paying she is trying to avoid excess charges because of failings of either/all the developer/British Gas/npower and we should be helping her.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Nov 27 2008, 9:46 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Brian

    "2. Ask to see a copy of the supply agreement you signed. If you did not sign one or the agreement was completed fraudulently then you will have the basis for further action."

    Thats not strictly correct, contracts can be written, verbal or deemed.

    If you own the property and you are using energy, you need to pay for it. This is regardless if you have a verbal or written contract or not. It's written into the electricity supply act, I can tell you what bit at a later date, but i dont have the exact paragraph to hand tonight.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Thu, Nov 27 2008, 12:32 AM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Bez

    I think part of the answer here may be in the phrase "welcome to your new home". If this was idndeed a new build it is likely that the developer entered into what is referred to as a framework agreement with BG, under which the developer agrees to introduce the new homebuyer to BG. If they sign-up then the developer gets a fee - usually £10 for single fuel or £20 for dual fuel. When you bought the property you should have signed something transfering the developers contract with BG to you. It doesn't look like a contract and often goes by names such as "Customer Registration Form". I really think this process is designed to take choice away from new homeowners.

    Obviously there is often a lot of paperwork involved in purchasing a new house and you may have signed the form without realising it but it can happen that the developer forgets to complete the form or worse still completes it (forges it!) on your behalf.

    So what can you do, I would advise as follows:

    1. Ring BG and formally put the account in dispute. This will result in a hold being placed on immediate follow-up action.

    2. Ask to see a copy of the supply agreement you signed. If you did not sign one or the agreement was completed fraudulently then you will have the basis for further action.

    The bit about the IGT is a bit of a red herring. Developers use IGTs because they are cheaper but many gas suppliers refuse to deal with them because of problems. Hoiwever, IGTs do not "tell" suppliers that they supply gas to certain address. This is done by the developer/customer entering into a supply contract. If the developer did not correctly assign that contract to you then he is liable not you and you should tell BG that.

    Hope this helps.

    Brian

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, Nov 26 2008, 10:27 PM

    Re: Double bill for gas - help!

    Hi,

    By the sounds of things npower have taken over the incorrect supply when applying for yours originally, if british gas have always been the supplier, they will be entitled to bill you for full usage since you moved in.

    Your payments to npower should more or less cover their bill, and you would almost certinly get a payment plan from b/gas for the rest. You may be able to get some money off for them taking so long to notice if you push hard enough, maybe not..

    I don't know if this would come under back billing charter or not to be honest, b/gas really should have been sending you bills if they were your supplier so you might have an argument there if the difference between what you've paid npower, and what they will bill you, is large.

    Ask these guys for some advice

    http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Tue, Nov 18 2008, 10:07 PM

    Double bill for gas - help!

    Can anyone help? I moved into my current property in Dec 2006. On the day I moved in I registered with NPower for both my gas and electricity supplies. I've paid both by direct debit and am in credit with my gas a/c. Last week I received a "To the occupier" letter from British Gas welcoming me to my new home! It asked me to contact BG to confirm my bank a/c details and activate my account. When contacted BG said that they had supplied gas to my property since I moved in. Obviously, I queried this with NPower who first of all said BG info was incorrect. I then spoke to a manger who later confirmed that BG do supply my gas. BG say it's taken them almost 2 years to notify me because my gas is transported via an indep gas transporter and it often takes up to a year for the IGT to notify BG that they supply gas to certain addresses. NP explained that they were under the impression that they supplied my gas because the IGT had never told them otherwise! I have two letters from NP dated June and July 06 confirming they supply gas to my property and my account for gas. NP have now closed my account and say they are in the process of refunding all the money I have paid to them via Direct Debits (ie from Dec 06 to Nov 08). BG have now billed me for almost 2 years supply of gas. I now forfeit my duel fuel discount from NP. BG insist that they must bill me for this supply even tho I have already paid NP for 2 years of gas supply. Where do I stand? I have acted in good faith throughout this 2 year period and never defaulted on my payments. BG did say they would wait until NP had refunded my payments before they send me a bill. However the BG bill arrived yesterday with no extra time for payment. NP say my bank a/c should be credited within 7-10 days. Can anyone offer advice? I seem to have no choice in my gas suppliers.

    As a side issue, I have also received a bill addressed "To the occupier" for a period of approx 3 months before I moved in.

    • Post Points: 35