Hi,

I can tell you from experience a am currently with Ashley Longmann Associates. and i have no heistation telling you that my dealings with them have been nothing but uplifting.

The thing that set this company apart is that they dont charge any upfront fees, they dont tell you that you can deffinately get your debts written off, you can alway get hold of someone in the office and they deal with everything for me. there was no hard sell and they actually listen. going on a debt management plan means i now pay a set amount each month, they have been able to settle and write off two of my debts totally and come to an agreement by where i can still keep my house.

i have had bailiffs on my door threatening me, i just put them onto my account manager sue and she just sorted it all out for me. i had it in my mind i was going to go down the bankruptcy route but its not as straight forward as i though. going on a debt management plan means i now pay a set amount each month, they have been able to settle and write off two of my debts totally and come to an agreement by where i can still keep my house.

my health is better, my relationship with my husband is better and i can see the light at the end ot the tunnel because of them. if you want to email me i would happily pass on their details. even my husbands family are with them so that says it all.

Sarah

Hi Everh,

Just checked and the email had disappeared but now seems to be back. Have another go as others have got it and Ican see it now.

As far as the call centres are concerned, it is worth remembering that they are quotad and receive bonuses based on collections. It would be in his financial interest to get you to borrow money to pay off the debt - even though such a suggestion is in breach of OFT guidelines.

As far as MBNA are concerned, I have ignored them and insisted on written communication only. They don't want written communication as they can be held to it, plus much of what they do is in breach of law, regs guidelines etc etc so their armoury would be significantly denuded if they wrote letters and complied with the rules. I have recently been sent a court action threat so I now sense closure. To go to court they need an executed agreement, the one, such as it is, that they have is not enforcible so they will soon be at a point of no return.

The alternatives are to go the CMC route and there are a couple of options I have there, but without recommendation. Alternatively, take the battle to them and go to court as claimant to prove unenforcibility. This is more risky as the burden of proof then shifts to you.

Thy the email again, if no joy then we will have to find another way

S

If anyone else is dealing/ has dealt with a CMC and got good results then please let me know and I will try to keep track of them.

S

I couldn't find your email address by clicking on your name Stubie-what am I doing wrong?

I too would like the details of a reputable claims company, I'm using 2 at the moment and I don't really know if they are any good as they never tell me anything. One has been going on since last November and the other since end of April 2009.

In another life I would really enjoy taking these people on but I often feel like I'm in a maze and I do get worn down with it.I find I'm looking through the threads and trying to weigh up the different bits of info when I'm already tired and stressed. But then other days, I think 'Bring it on!'

I used one claims company last November for MBNA formerly Abbey, I stopped paying the minimum payment 2 months ago and they started contacting me. Their main thing was trying to get some money and warning me about my credit file.Monday night I had a cosy chat with their debt collections department-he did all the talking because I told him I needed to consult my solicitor before commenting or agreeing anything. His manner was very conspiratual and very 'off the record'.

'You see your solicitor will have his day in court and 9.5 out of every 10 lose, he'll go back to his day job and you'll be left with the mess of the debt and costs etc. If I were you I'd be getting a deal with another credit company and paying this off and have done with them.' He also said a rather aggressive letter I'd just recieved was just one they just churn out to everyone.This change of tone coupled with the 'friendly' advice was at first very unsettling, but then I began to think about 'why' they were adopting this approach and felt much more confident about my position.But these late night conversations do not help restful sleep.

I have 8 cards/loans I'm contesting, my minimum payments would have been £1,500.The other are barclaycard(3) and we all know their formula,sent them to FOS. M&S (2) ignore everything sent them to FOS.Capitalone-response to SAR everything except signed document, I've sent them to FOS. Cahoot sent them to claims company. They are all registering defaults on my credit file, charging late fees etc and I feel beseiged.I would really like to do the registering of data thing, but as I understand it, you have to prove that the agreements are unenforceable before applying to the court to get adverse entries removed.It sounds like FOS just hang on to it for 12 months and then hand it back, so maybe I should regroup and adopt a different strategy.

Any suggestions very gratefully recieved,thanks!

Thanks newman,

I can't say that I blame you, as I said, its not for everyone.

Good luck with the fight and the business.

All the best

S

Hi stubie

Thanks very much for such a detailed response. I think you have just clarified for me which is the best way for us to go. As we have already spent such a huge amount of time getting to this stage I think it is now time to hand this over to people who are getting paid to take away our stress. We are never going to know as much as the solicitors and it would be too easy to miss something and make a mistake.

As we have several creditors that we are very unhappy with the tasks is therefore multiplied accordingly and also the costs. Both my wife and I really did reach the end of our tethers as we were being threatened with Court action, CCJ's charges over our properties etc and to be honest the fact that both Barclays and Citi have just disappeared and have not come back to us this has at least given us peace and quiet but it still reamins unresolved. Others have now taken their place instead so we now feel that we just cant begin all the hassle again.

The costs you have outlined are presumably per case and as such the amount of money we would spend utilising the services of the CMC is not a ot more. Its a huge thing to us to just have the peace of mind that the CCC's are off our back so to speak.

As my wife is employed full time and I am running our business we want to have evenings and weekends free to spend quality time with our kids rather than spend all available time writing to and fighting creditors. three years of doing this is enough. Also there is the matter that when I am not spending all my time writing to my creditors I can spend that time working on making my business work as it should and therefore hopefully increase the money that is coming in to our household. This to me is a far more producitve use of my time now.

I dont share your enjoyment of the chase unfortunately!

thanks very much again for all your advice - it ireally is apprecviated.

Hi Newman,

It is stressful (although some find it entertaining) and it is not quick. If you assume a minimum of 6 - 9 months but could drag on - I know of LiP (Litigant in Person - no legal representation) actions that have gone on for well over a year. There is no proper yardstick for these claims.

You can do it yourself and win, many have. It is cheaper to DIY but you need to be comitted and be prepared to carry out a lot of research into the relevant legislation etc. The default action seems to be to try to scare consumers into paying up or comitting to payment plans that are opressive. The DCAs etc are target driven and have no regard for person or law. Typically, they will drag you to the courtroom door before folding. If they think they have a case then they may take the risk of a court appearance. As a financial institution, they have the financial might to do this, they will use their strength in this area as another scare tactics - you will pay our costs etc etc.

Its not all doom and gloom though;

An SAR costs £10 and that is per organisation. If you have several accounts with the same orgainisation then lump them together. Data is held by person, not account. The creditor is entitled to 40 days in which to respond.

A CPR 31.16, initially, is a couple of letters. If you need to go to court then there are costs in the order of £100 - £150 which you should be able to recover from the other party on the basis of obstruction. This process is more timeconsuming depending upon how far the creditor pushes.

The final alternative is just to wait them out. Reply to the letters, ignore the calls, wait for them to threaten court then go for acknowledgement of service, standard disclosure, defence and see if they have a case. They cannot fail to disclose any document that they later wish to rely on in court - this is the purpose of CPR 31.14 (CPR 31.16 is pre action, 31.14 is pre-hearing, post action). This will not leave you a lot of time to prepare a defence, hence the s78 req, SAR etc. You get the documents earlier and your defence can be prepared at reasonable leisure.

Its your call but if you are happy with your CMC (some are good and have successes to prove this) and your wife is not comfortable with the situation then I would suggest that you stick with the CMC and save your sanity. Personally, I enjoy the chase and the battle but its not for everyone.

Hope this helps

S

Stubie-One:

Hi Newman,

A SAR is a Subject Access Request. This is done under the provisions of the Data Protection Act. Basically, they CCC is obliged to provide a copy of all the data, where the requestor is the data subject, held in relevant filing systems. In response to such a request, the CCC must provide copys of all data held and edetails of the use to which this data has been put. So, if they have a copy of your agreement then this is relevant data and should be supplied. The 83 regs do not apply here so should be the original, although it isn't always. A SAR cost £10 and can take (according to the law) up to 40 days.

CPR 31.16 is a a pre-action protocol within the Court Procedure Rules. A party to future procedings must reveal any document relevant to such procedings. You may have to take this to court to enforce it but it is another option.

I think your experiences with the CCCs and the regulators is fairly typical. The CCCs have ignored the law for so long that it is now custom and practice.

I hope the CMC does a good job for you - be careful, some are cowboys - keep us all posted as there are some on this site who would be interested in a decent and honourable CMC.

S

Stubie - you obviously have a lot of experience and knowledge in this area. Can you give me an idea of how long it would take and what is involved if we did decide to look at taking on our CCC's ourselves to the next stages and what the likelihood is of being successful without involving solicitors.

From our experience to date with the CCC's it appears that they will go along with you so far but then just stop corresponding despite threats being made. My wife particularly has suffered from the stress side of things but I would be willing to keep the fight going myself if I felt that I could do this and be as sure as I could be that we would end up with a successful outcome.

The main problem is just how much time is all this going to take and how much is it likely to cost to request a SAR and then apply for the CPR31.16.

We dont have a lot of spare cash to throw at expensive solicitors or expensive legal battles which again is the main reason we employed the services of the CMC as it was a few hundred pounds fixed cost and zero hassle.

thanks very much

Hi Stubie

email just gone off

thanks very much.

Hi,

If you click on my user name you will find an email address. Can you send me the details of the company you are using, please.

I sometimes get private messages from people who are looking for a CMC that does not fall into the "crook" category so if there is one that you feel is genuine then this information would be useful to me.

The same goes for anyone else reading this although I will not entertain contact from CMCs directly, nor will I promote CMCs through this site, which contravenes site rules but also my personal ethics.

Good luck with them, hope you get sorted. The timescales you mention are realistic, in my experience but could drag on depending upon the litigation tactics of the creditor.

S

thanks v much for this Stubie

I have checked and both of the above you mentioned are being done by the CMC.

I agree with you about your comments re some CMC's, however the Co we have gone with came as a recommendation through a friend who was having her CCA's reviewed and after a lot of checking and researching we went fwith them because there was one fee to pay and then nothing else. Also if the agreement were found to be enforcible then we would receive a 100% refund. As it turned out the first agreeement is unenforceable and litigation proceedings have now started. what happens remains to be seen but will keep posting as and when things progress. Apparently it could take 6-9months so i tmay not be quick.

Like a lot of things in life one has to lok at all the advantages and disadvantages when paying people a fee for the service they provide and if we hadnt fought for over three years ourselves I think we may well have taken on our worst creditors ourselves, however, both my wife and I agreed that for the very fact that someone else can deal with for us and the stress is therefore taken away this was for us worth it.

I have done some further research and it seems that there are a number of CCC's now settling with clients out of court rather than having to go to court as it seems that if they were to go to court and lose then a presidence could be set and flood gates would be open against them.

Thanks very much again

Hi Newman,

A SAR is a Subject Access Request. This is done under the provisions of the Data Protection Act. Basically, they CCC is obliged to provide a copy of all the data, where the requestor is the data subject, held in relevant filing systems. In response to such a request, the CCC must provide copys of all data held and edetails of the use to which this data has been put. So, if they have a copy of your agreement then this is relevant data and should be supplied. The 83 regs do not apply here so should be the original, although it isn't always. A SAR cost £10 and can take (according to the law) up to 40 days.

CPR 31.16 is a a pre-action protocol within the Court Procedure Rules. A party to future procedings must reveal any document relevant to such procedings. You may have to take this to court to enforce it but it is another option.

I think your experiences with the CCCs and the regulators is fairly typical. The CCCs have ignored the law for so long that it is now custom and practice.

I hope the CMC does a good job for you - be careful, some are cowboys - keep us all posted as there are some on this site who would be interested in a decent and honourable CMC.

S

hi everhopeful - not sure what I did that is going to help you but I appreciate your comment.

All the best in your tussle with them

Thanks very much Stubie. interesting to know the 30 day offence has been repealed.

Can you just explain what a SAR is please and what is the CPR 31. 16?

Also it appears that the CCC's are so blatently arrogant that they feel it is OK to just completley ignore requests for information and it is also clear that they know that us mere mortals dont have the financial clout to take them on in court. Is this why they have just totally ignored our requests and have also disregarded our threats to take this a lot further.

As both my wife and I had spent dozens of hours over the last three years writing letters to the CCC's and various debt collectors and solicitors which has not only taken up a huge amount of our time but also caused a lot of stress, we have employed the services of a claims management Co to do the work for one of our other equally nasty creditors. As our financial situation has changed now we feel that it would be better to leave it with solicitors who know a lot more than we do and who get paid to take our stress from us. Within 3 weeks of dealing with the first creditor they have confimed that the agreement is unenforceible and litigation has now started.

We did consider trying to do the rest ourselves but to be honest we are so fed up at the way the CCC's have treated us that it is worth every penny of the fees to have the stress taken away from us. We are 90% certain that a significant number of our creditors agreements are totally unenforcible but as we have now spent days of our time corresponding we felt it was time to hand it over to the experts. It took a lot of soul searching before we went with the claims management company but we dont want to go through the same stress with our other creditors just to find they totally ignore us and it is all left hanging and unresolved. We did look at employing a solicitor but this was prohibitive on cost. We felt that the claims mgmt Co's fee is reasonable and we will have no other costs than the first fee so this was a much more cost effective way to have this dealt with.

The final nail in the coffin for us was that it took the FIn ombudsmen nearly a year to deal with our official complaint against Barclays and in the end wrote to us saying there was nothing they could do. they did confirm that they had seen my application but not the original full agreement so we were very disillusioned by this as we thought that by getting the FOS involved that this would force Barclays to comly with our requests.

So we have wasted a year and the CCC's were very happy to take over £16,000 from us just to make min payments but when we got into difficulties most of them were extremely unhelpful. Very interesting that when you suddenly say to a creditor "we cant pay you more than £10 a month and we would like you to freeze interest" how their attitude changes.

If we knew then what we know now there is no way we would have given them all of the cash we did. We wanted to do the ethical moral thing and try to clear off our debts but found the financial burden unsustainable.

Because of the way we have been treated by the CCC's our attitude is very different now to what it was a few years ago and as we have tried the best we can and not had a lot of help nor sympathy (noth that we felt we would get it or deserved it) from the CCC's & DCA's, if it transpires that our CC agreements are unenforceable and our so called "debts" are cleared then that is to be honest, a small bonus but we are much more concerned with the CCC's putting our credit files right as this has affected our business a lot.

We need a resolution on this so that we can move ahead.

Thanks again

Hi Newman,

Whilst it was relevant at the time, the 30 day offence was repealed in May 2008, so this part of your arguement is no longer valid. this doesn't undermine your claim in any way. See the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, schedule 4, part 1

Most people are serving injunctions on the CCCs and DCAs for the removal of defaults.

In order to do this you will need to have your agreement declared unenforcible. The first stage would be to use the CPR 31.16 - pre-action disclosure as a final attempt to get your agreement or apply for a SAR. The SAR option is the cheaper route as there is no litigation involved. You can, of course, do both.

Then, based on the reply, go to court for a declaration of unenforcibility.

S