Hi, I know the above post is a old one and would apreciate your advice

I am trying to claim ctc, but FTC have removed my child (this was due to her coming to live with me, afetr being with her mum for a number of years), we were sent a election notice which i duly returned.

I recieved my award notice set at nil due to the above I sent in a appeal notice form, and have been told it has been sent to the appeals department and wont be looked at untill may if its actioned on this date, I am in receipt of CB and the claim was submitted on the 18th Jan 2011.

All i am being told is 'its with appeals nothing we can do' the amount now outstanding is around £700.00 short of taking legal action for them withholding benifits i dont know what to do form here

This is by way of a general response when dealing with the TCO. First thing to remember is the following golden rules:

* to know when they are lying - like politicians watch or listen carefully, when they open their mouth you can be sure it's a lie.

* record everything, it's worth buying a dedicated recording machine and informing them at the begining of the conversation that you are recording it.

* keep every scrap of paper, letter, form etc. that you send or is sent to you.

* keep a record of names, times & dates when you communicate with them.

The following is my experience:

I claimed on behalf of myself and my wife as I was the wage earner. We sold up and I quit my job - we then had a break in NZ during July 2005, intending to emigrate (I told then this) but returned Sept 2005. On our return we lived in rented from October 2005 until we separated late June 2005. We hadn't decided that it was permanent as my wife & kids went to live with her mother and I renovated the house I'd just purchased with a view to our reconcilation. We told the TCO in August 2005 that we were'nt living together, we asked for advice. The following advice was given to my wife: a) you can continue the join claim - if you decide to you don't have to do anything else b) you can start a new single claim and end the joint claim. She decided to continue the joint claim.

Simple enough - you'd think - but no. They denied that they'd ever said this and that we'd been claiming for a non-existant household ( luckily we were able to get a recording of all phone conversations provided by the TCO on CD - which coroborate this). The nub of their claim is a) we never told them in time (they say July 2007 not when we called August 2006) b) that you can't live apart and still claim as a couple (wrong - see below).

The Tax Credits Office publication TCTM06100 Claims and Notifications, states under; a claim can be made ;

“Claims from couples known as ‘joint claims.’ Where a couple is married or partners in a Civil Partnership they must make a joint claim unless they are separated under a court order or separated in circumstances that are likely to be permanent.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/tctm06100.htm

So hey were wrong on two counts: 1) they lied or never listened to the recordings they sent us 2) their own guide lines define the conditions of a joint claim (as above).

After two years of bullying by the TCO I have now taken this to the Adjuducator and got the Citizens Advice & my MP involved. NEVER give up if you are in the right. You may not win but you'll make them think about taking on cases where there is clearly an injustice.

Good Luck

I have just renewed my claim and when the statement came through it said I had been overpaid by £1000.

My salary information is correct and my childcare costs haven't changed and the forcast for this year is the same as the forcast I had for last year. When I phoned to query it I was told it was because I did not update my childcare provider in time. I am very confused, my childcare costs have stayed the same and our salary is such that we don't even qualify for the childcare element. In fact when I renewed last year, I was told that they didn't need to know the chilcare total for the year as we did not qualify. So now I am confused, why was I told that the childcare bit did not matter, as we didn't qualify and am now being told that as I didn't update the childcare in time my credit is being halved - just for that year!

Is there anything I can do?

I think I have read this right.....you moved to New Zealand with your wife briefly,you both returned to the UK and then decided to live apart.

When did you start to claim Tax Credits and when did you start to live apart?

Without seeing the details of the claim I can only give brief advise.

Basically if you had called and advised you were living apart, the 1st thing that should have been asked is whether the 2 of you had become financially independant......if you had then the claim should have been stopped. It also should have been stopped if you no longer classed yourself as a couple....no matter how brief the split was.

When did the payments made to you as a couple stop, and why did they stop?......it would probably either be because you may have phoned and a different adviser realised you lived apart, or one of you may have tried to claim something as a single person (benefits etc...)

Generally to claim Tax Credits as a couple you need to be living in the same household.......the normal exception is 1 partner who works out of the country, but is still contributing to the household financially.

It sounds like you may have been given the wrong advise when you 1st called, however the claim was probably correct to have been stopped.

Did you get back together(if so how long were you apart) or did the separation become permenant?

In terms of disputing the overpayment, what reason was given for it not being remitted?....Did you dispute it a 2nd time with the details of the recording?

If the Tax Credit office aren't budging on this you will need to take it to a tribunal.....CAB can advise how to do this

What I would suggest doing is contacting the helpline and ask them to work out if you benefitted financially from the claim....it may actually turn out that you would have received more money claiming as 2 single people!.....if that is the case then they would have to find a strong arguement to pursue it to the court recovery stage

Hi

I read your post with interest and am in agreement with some of the points that you made. As an insider I wondered whether you could help me sort out a nightmare that I am currently going through.

When my wife and I returned from New Zealand in late 2005 (we had gone out with the intention of emigrating) we rented a house and lived there until June 2006 by this time it was evident that we wouldn't be emigrating as a family. My wife went to live with her mother while I brought and renovated what I hoped would be the new family house. We asked the Tax Credits help line what we should do as we had separated but didn't know if it would be permanent, They told my wife that we could continue claiming as a couple if we wanted to. We now at last have that recording. However the Tax Credits Office have been pursuing us, since Spring 2007, for that year's claw back as we had separated. They deny that that their advice was wrong (to continue the claim). I have checked this out with the Citizens Advice Bureau who say that we are correct in believing that we could continue the claim as a couple who had separated providing that a) we were not the subject of a judicial separation or b) that at the time the separation was not intended to be permanent. In both cases it was negative.

These points have been put through both the CAB and my MP who can both see the validity of our argument, however even though the head of the TC complaints department acknowledges that we had never separated permanently we are still being pursued for the claw back. There has been no rational explanation just that the investigation has finished and we are referred back to the original decision.

Neither my wife nor I want to take money that we are not entitled to which is why we informed the TCO of our separation. However when we were that we could continue the claim we were surprised and later angry to be told at a later date that we had to pay back over £6,000.00. Do you have any advice? It seems clear that the TCO are ignoring their own ruling in this matter but we feel we are being bludgeoned by a remorseless bureaucracy. I don't know how to proceed from here.

regards

Phil

Hi Zainiac

I have just been informed by the Tax credits that i have been overpaid by £566.10.I moved house in oct2007 and regretably did not inform them,thinking i would pick up all mail from my redirection set up which for some reason i did not.I contacted the Tax credits helpline in 13th sept 2008, they informed me had witten without response from me for my anual review pack, they had since terminated my payments on 18th july, but infomed me i could reaply again ang back date up to 93 daysThey sent the new application to my previous address even tho i had given my new one i managed to recover this and promptly filled out the new pack with a covering letter apologising for my error and asking them to kindly back date my payments sent on the 18th sept They have now informed 24th oct iowe this amount.I have spoken again with them today and have asked for a dispute form,also my new application has not been processed.Surely this is an error i was still entitled to the money as my working circmstances have remained unchanged, how can i owe them money,which is rightly mine all becuse of an error in changing my address, surely the coulg link it p and backdate with a simple change of address.Please help.

jazzy.

What are the chances /opportunities of appealing against a recovery of overpayment when it's only a technical overpayment because I didn't complete an annual declaration on time? Aside from this administrative matter they've paid me what I was entitled to and now want it back - everything from 2004/05 onwards.

There's a long story about various letters and phone calls, which I won't go into yet I've had and I've already gone through the TC846 proces and got the letter refusing the appeal.

I'm thinking my next moves are - make a formal complaint and offer to complete any declarations retrospectively.

Anyone got any experience of this? Any ideas?
Bob

Hi Stewie, I had one of those letters telling me they were looking into my 03/04 claim which is the year i was overpaid £2,500. They clawed all that back so i dont owe them anything now.

What do you make of this link? .... have you heard anything about this? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/03/payback-time-for-tax-credit-victims-89520-19725616/

Hi there stewiegriffin or anybody.

I just had to reply to your post as you say you work for the dreaded WFTC, as a working/CHILD tax claimer, i have a question for you. As you can see i have highlighted the word child. Also please do not feel i am blaming you personally. Can you tell me why the WFTC tells me every year that i do not have a child? My son is now 13 years old.I really cant take anymore, if anybody mentions WFTC i instantly want to curl into a ball in the corner and cry. My friends literally bully me every year to renew my claim because i just cant bear going through it all every year anymore. This is just one of the problems i have encountered over the years, like many many many others every year i get told i have been over paid one day, next day there is no record of it? I could go on and on and on about everything that has happened regarding my claims. Luckly for anyone reading this i cant even bare to contine with the list of things that have been wrong. Also i get between 3 - 5 new award notices every year in the same week all stating different things.One more question, Is it possible that i have had more than one claim built on the system? Has somebody tried to delete and rebuild my account and it just hasnt worked? Any thoughts would be appreciated, Many Thanks in advance.

Jeejee xx

Well I suppose all good things must come to an end, after repeated letters and toing and froing they will not budge on the last figure even though they are at fault, so I have to repay the £800 but at least its to be taken over the next few years.

so final Tax credit fiasco result as far as I am concerned is Bushey Won Taxman Didnt.

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Thanks very much for the informative response.

From what you are saying it seems that I should give up telephone calls requesting for a reward notice and the request of bank payments rather than giro. Is there any need to worry that we do not have a reward notice even though we have renewed our claim and the fact that we are being paid via giro?? Will we EVER receive an award ie "four year problem"??

Oddly, changes in circumstance were notified in January 07 prior to the new tax year, it was the from April 07 that we started being paid via giro cheque so I do not see why the computer system feels we do not have an award.

Thanks again, I am sure like others that we appreciate someone from the inside as it were giving out straight forward easy to understand responses to what we all think are straight forward questions !!

 

Hi tao....It's hard to say without seeing your claim, however i can say that ever since Tax Credits started it has been no secret that there has been many technical problems. A very common one is that when a change of circumstance is entered, for some reason (we are not told what), it is not processed propery resulting in the payments stopping. It has happened for years and doesn't happen to specific claims, it is totally random. Payments can't be made into the bank as the system doesn't recognise any payments are actually due. The only way to make payments is to manually send them out via girocheque, and because the system thinks no money is due, no award is issued. I don't want to be the messenger of doom, but the same problem has been going on for 4 years now and once a claim goes into manual payments, it usually stays that way or certainly for a long long time. Many times we have asked why a new claim cannot be submitted instead as it would be easier for staff and claimants alike, but as per usual no answer is given. I understand that you have always been paid into your bank, but it was the same for everyone else that it happened to. Hopefully I am wrong and your claim will be fixed, however be prepared, although you wil always be told it is being looked at....because that is what we are made to say!!!

Hello Stewiegriffin

I was wondering if you could offer some advice. We renewed our tax credits by the renewal date and have still not received our award notice, we have rung up some three weeks ago and informed that there was some info missing of which has now been updated. When we telephoned recently requesting when we should be expecting the notice we were surprised to hear that it is still being processed - do you know how long it may take as before, it took just ten working days to receive our notice and it is already September? We are also being paid manually by giro cheque which we can't understand why, with responses implying that it is a tech issue and the computer can't pay directly to our bank. This just does not add up as it had always been paid this way before.

I would be so grateful if you could shead some light onto these issues

Many Thanks

Newby here so if I missed something please tell me

I await my WTC restarting and an M1 referral was sent from the call centre on 31st July to correct a mistake by someone in the WTC who stopped my payments by accident. I have had 2 emergency payments sincethen and I phoned the other day to be told an M1 referral was sent on the 4th Sept

I am told I am due £1500 arrears for last year plus 8/9 weeks currently and no amount of calling the contact centre helps

I also lodged a complaint 4 weeks ago .....

I seem to be hitting my head on a brick wall to no avail - any advice

Thanks

Unfortunately these things do sometimes happen......it is called human error. The best thing I can advise is send in a cheque for what you can afford (it doesn't have to be the full amount) and then the rest will be taken back directly from the tax credits you would normally receive. As long as you are entitled to tax credits you will not be taken to court or anything like that. In regards to keeping it,that won't happen I'm afraid. An o/p will only be wiped out if it is our fault AND you would not be reasonably expected to know that it had been paid. The fact that a lump sum of this amount was paid would mean that you should know it was incorrectly paid.