Hi SJ,

Don't be surprised if the SAR turns up, eventually.

The advice above is all good, you can escalate as you see fit. You can also write back demanding action but the lack of response is a reasonable retort to any demands.

As Basa says, sit tight and don't go for them, let them go for you. If they do go to court, they will need the original executed agreement. Without this, they are in a corner.

If the delay goes on then the ICO is the place to complain but the ICO is very busy right now so they may take a while to respond.

S

As an afterthought - I wouldn't contemplate taking them to court (although I would expect a positive outcome), it is too onerous and too expensive and puts the onus on you to prove your claim. Much easier to defend.

At least for now I would expect a flurry of 'begging' and threatening letters from the creditor and any collection agencies they employ. You can respond to these as is appropriate something along the lines of "without a properly executed credit agreement you have no liability to make further payments. You do not acknowlege the debt and dispute the account etc. etc". You could mention you might offer to make a full and final offer or a repayment plan ONLY if they can produce anything like a proper agreement document.

Cheers Basa

Music to my ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After all the hassle and jumping through hoops this is a good sign!

S

Please Help SJ:

Hi

What happens if you have no response after 40 working days?

I sent SAR and £10 postal order but nothing!

Any help greatly appreciated.

SJ

I would say the CCC are definitely on the back foot.

Further I would suggest the documents you have already received do not constitute a properly executed agreement and thus could not be enforced by a court.

The chances are that the delay in sending a reply to your SAR is because they cannot find a workable copy of the agreement.

I would rest on my laurels for now, stop worrying and stop any repayments. Without a properly executed agreement (a contract) you have no liability in law to pay this account.

Please Help SJ:

HiWhat happens if you have no response after 40 working days?I sent SAR and £10 postal order but nothing! Any help greatly appreciated.

They are in breach of the of your rights and you can make a complaint to the Information commissioner. See http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/data_protection.aspx . I think you have to write to them giving them notice that if you do not receive the SAR details within (say) 10 days, you will forward a complaint to the information commissioner. Your letter as before, should be addressed to their Data Protection officer or controller. Enclose a copy of the previous letter and proof of posting.

Huckster

Hi

What happens if you have no response after 40 working days?

I sent SAR and £10 postal order but nothing!

Any help greatly appreciated.

SJ

Hi

As usual any help greatly appreciated!

I sent off a £10 postal order and a 'CMK' template SAR letter over 40 working days ago and I haven't had a response yet. I do not have the funds to try to take the matter to Court.

Do I do nothing and wait for them to chase me for non-payment and then I start again asking for a true copy of CCA? Been looking at other threads but still unsure!

Any info received with thanks!

S

Try this:

======================== =====================

Subject Access Request.

Section 5 of the Data Protection Act 2002 gives me the legal right to request copies of the information held about me, together with a description of the purposes for which this information is, or has been, processed and to whom the information can be, or has been, disclosed.

As prescribed in the above act, please acknowledge receipt of the request in writing immediately. To comply with the law you must provide the information requested promptly and in any event within 40 calendar days.

I require full disclosure, not time limited, of any and all data, including:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->emails,

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->telephone transcripts,

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->call centre activity,

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->data transmission – to whom and for what purpose

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->copies of any and all communication with myself

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->statements

<!--[if !supportLists]-->· <!--[endif]-->any and all communication containing information relating to myself sent to or received from any third party.

I enclose the £10 fee, this being the maximum permitted by the office of the Data Protection Supervisor.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

========================== =========================

Ignoring the formatting rubbish at the top, of course

S

Thank you so much, I will look for a SAR template.

I can't say how much I appreciate everyones input!

SJ

Hi,

Just to add my tuppence worth, Basa is right about the SAR although some creditors are avoiding this route too.

It is worth bearing in mind that you send an SAR by creditor rather than account so if some of your accounts are with the same company then you only need send one SAR and reference the different accounts on the application.

Might save a few quid

S

Please Help SJ:Any thoughts please!

I have now received replies to the above letter I sent to CCA. They have all replied along the same lines as

"I understand that you believe that the credit agreement provided, in response to your request under sections 78/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA"), is an application form. Please note that one the copy of the agreement, your signature is supported by the statement This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if yu want to be legally bound by its terms.

The fact it says this is frankly meaningless, unless the application also contains all the terms prescribed for a properly executed agreement.

Please Help SJ:They go on to say that they are not in default and they say "For the avoidance of doubt, if you decide to take legal proceedings against us we shall strenuously defed the same and enter a counterclaim for the full outstanding balance and costs, which we may recover on an indemnity basis".

Well they need to scare you into submission since they are on shaky ground.

Please Help SJ:They actually sent me two sheets of a fax and the heading of the first sheet clearly says "Your personal application for the XXXXXXXXXXXXXX credit card" The sentence above my personal details states "Credit Agreement regulated by Consumer Credit Act 1974. This Agreement is made between XXXXXXXXXXX and you (personal details below). Application subject to status." Then there is 4 pictures of the kind of card you would like, the a payment protection box and my signature dated 1996. Sheet 2 is the Terms and Conditions but I cannot read them as they are miniscule, but there is not a reference to link it to the application form.

Like I said the document needs to contain all the prescribed terms either on the one form (and its reverse side) or on separate pages which must be incontrovertly linked so as to form one complete document. Oh and it definitely should be legible as well!!

Please Help SJ:Although I work, I do not have spare cash, assets or savings and I live in rented accommodation so they can't really do much to me to make me pay can they? I expect they have already ruined my credit score. What do you think I should do next? Any help would be appreciated as I am way out of my depth!!!

Many thanks

SJ

Join the club. We are all in debt (thanks in some part to irresponsible banks) and I for one would explore any avenue to reduce or minimise repayments and even no payments and will use the law in much the same way as they would against us. The fact that the banks and DCAs routinely LIE to extort your money only makes me more determined.

I know it will cost a bit (£10 per request) but I would also make a Subject Access Request for all documents pertaining to you from these companies under the Data Protection Act. This should provide everything they have on you. The downside is it takes 40 days for a reply.

I do want to pay, but what I can afford. I am taking a stand against the CCA's bullish tactics and uncomprehensible behaviour and charges! They make excessive charges and will only speak on the phone, never anything in writing, speak to so many people, you never know where you stand.

If I didn't want to pay I would go down the IVA/Bankruptcy route!

S

Sounds like you dont want to pay, you really need to arrange something with them. Say I was buying your old tv of you and said I will have it now and pay you later, how would that make you feel?

Companys can apply for an attachment of earnings order directly from your employer.

Any thoughts please!

I have now received replies to the above letter I sent to CCA. They have all replied along the same lines as

"I understand that you believe that the credit agreement provided, in response to your request under sections 78/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA"), is an application form. Please note that one the copy of the agreement, your signature is supported by the statement This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if yu want to be legally bound by its terms.

They go on to say that they are not in default and they say "For the avoidance of doubt, if you decide to take legal proceedings against us we shall strenuously defed the same and enter a counterclaim for the full outstanding balance and costs, which we may recover on an indemnity basis".

They actually sent me two sheets of a fax and the heading of the first sheet clearly says "Your personal application for the XXXXXXXXXXXXXX credit card" The sentence above my personal details states "Credit Agreement regulated by Consumer Credit Act 1974. This Agreement is made between XXXXXXXXXXX and you (personal details below). Application subject to status." Then there is 4 pictures of the kind of card you would like, the a payment protection box and my signature dated 1996. Sheet 2 is the Terms and Conditions but I cannot read them as they are miniscule, but there is not a reference to link it to the application form.

Although I work, I do not have spare cash, assets or savings and I live in rented accommodation so they can't really do much to me to make me pay can they? I expect they have already ruined my credit score. What do you think I should do next? Any help would be appreciated as I am way out of my depth!!!

Many thanks

SJ