Jalexa

You have hit the nail on the head. Most problems result from customers not keeping on top of inaccurate estimated readings. Its a poor system but we all must realise this and dont rely on the suppliers readings. For the last 18 months I have taken readings every saturday morning logged them and sent them online to the supplier (yes sad I know). The point is i now know exactly what my consumption is which means when using comparison sites i receive accurate figures. Plus the bills are accurate and will not have the wool pulled over my eyes(hopefully). I have used Npower for many years and now Bgas and no major problems. The problem is the estimated bills are useless and cause a lot of nasty surprises when the customer receives a bill with an actual reading. I know its a bind but my advice is keep a log of your readings or at least check the bill and send in the correct reading. The same when moving in or out of property, dont rely on others, read them and write them down.

One problem I had was when I switched supplier. I was determined it would run smoothly. I phoned both the old and new suppliers before the switch date about the final/opening readings and each one told me the other was responsible for the final reads???????????????????? I sorted it but THIS IS WHAT WE ARE ALL UP AGAINST staff giving wrong advice.

Thanks Jalexa. Not sure I can be bothered now - after all I did get my money back quickly. As you say, there's not really a claim to pursue (other than a very small loss of interest on the money). It would have been far more of a problem if my bank account was already low and Anglian Water's withdrawal meant other DD's didn't get paid. I think I'll just put it down as a lesson on the need to keep on top of everything and not assume that others have done their jobs properly.

Also beware npower, this time on the duel fuel discount that they give. I used to be on a two bill system, one for elec & another for gas but still got the duel fuel discount. Then, in Dec 2008, npower decided to combine them, thus canceling my gas DD & elec DD & restarting a completely new DD. I have only recently noticed that the last time I got duel fuel discount was April 2008. I pointed this out to them & they have admitted it was their fault because of the above DD's canceled & new DD. So I now ask all npower customers check up on this or better still just claim you have not had your discount & see what happens.

knighterrant:

Perhaps I should claim against Angian Water for taking the £230 without notice. What do you think?

I would certainly "rough-up" Anglian Water using their complaints procedure, though I'm not sure there is a "claim" to pursue.

You are entitled to a full explanation how the situation arose, you obviously want to ensure there wasn't any element of staff fraud involved, you wan't to be happy that your account is being managed by competent staff. Computer's being down sometimes happens but you only had a single adviser's word. The issue is the non-ownership of the issue via manual procedures. Also the lack of an apology.

And finally you should ask for an ex-gratia Distress and Inconvenience (D&I) payment. This is because any refusal would be grounds to refer the complaint to their ombudsman or alternate dispute resolution provider.

Have fun.

In my earlier message I said I was hoping my monthly DD would be significantly reduced following my switch to another tariff with npower. I'm delighted to report that my latest statement just received shows my total "dual fuel" payments have dropped from a frightening £231 per month to a more paletable £115.

Funnily enough the bill was based on readings I took on 14 September, but this afternoon (21 September) a meter reader visited; a fat lot of use his reading will be, but I suppose it allows them to say they have complied with their duty to read the meter at least every 2 years (or whatever it is)!

Not so funny was Anglian Water's latest trick with DD. My 16 July bill showed that my account with them was in CREDIT by £279.73. So I'm sure you can imagine my surprise to get my bank statement in early September and see that Anglian Water had withdrawn £230.00 instead of the usual monthly debit of £58.00!!! My phone call to them elicited no apology and they even said they couldn't do anything about it because their computer system was down! I had to get onto my bank and arrange an "Indemnity Claim". Fortunately my bank (Alliance & Leicester) do have their act together and they got the £230 transferred back into my current account within a couple of days.

Perhaps I should claim against Angian Water for taking the £230 without notice. What do you think?

Yes I know that some companies can play up on the rules of DD, but I only have problems with 3 (out of a total of 12 DD's per month). One is npower, another is United Utilities (who I have had compensation from) & Talk-Talk who just changed my 10 working days notice to 3 working days to get round it. I do have the User's Guide to DD's on my hard-drive but I have no way of posting it on here (I have tried to do this on other forums) but I could email it to you as an attachment if I had your email address.

Herb:

Has anyone else had the same problem?

If you mean in general I'm afraid lots of organisations play fast and loose with the rules with no obvious regulatory or BACS disciplinary action. Sadly par for the course in UK 2009.

BTW the rules may default to 10 days but the applicable time is the time agreed in the mandate. No sure what the NPower mandate says.

Your customer recourse, and actually the only process which "may" flag-up non-compliance, is to invoke the DD Guarantee via your bank by requiring an "immediate" refund on the grounds of inadequate notice. Personally if you are happy with NPower prices, and in general including the annual discount in arrears, they are amongst the cheapest, I would tough it out invoking the bank refund every time there is a transgression.

Any way you can post your copy of the DD User Guide?

For all I have been with npower for several years now & I consider them one of the cheapest for gas & electric, one thing they don't seem to be able to do is to comply with the rules of direct debits. They are supposed to give me (& everyone else) 10 working days notice, PLUS POSTAL TIME, of any change in the DD. The 'Service User's Guide & Rules to the Direct Debit Scheme', page 5, point 1.5, page 19, point 3.3 & page 31, point 4.2 clearly state, "10 working days plus postal time". Although I have had two lots of compensation, totaling £150, out of npower over the past 18 months they have done the very same thing again. I am now considering changing to another provider because I am fed up with all the emails, letters & phone calls I have to do to get what I am due. Has anyone else had the same problem?

sparky76:

What are your (and others) thoughts?

Sparky.

For my part I don't know enough to say in this case. However in dealing with any organisation I strongly advocate dissatisfied customers obtain the organisation's code of practice on complaints, follow it scrupulously, and if still dissatisfied after deadloock or 12 (sometimes 8) weeks, whichever occurs first, refer the issue to the organisation's Ombudsman or Alternate Dispute Resolution service.

Not only does the organisation get hit with a hefty case fee regardless of outcome, it costs the complainer nothing and if upheld and deserved a distress and inconvenience award will be made.

Hi Katy,

Where in the complaints process did you get with NPower? I think given the stress and concern of being told to find a large lump sum, that you should pursue NPower for some compensation, perhaps agreeing to clear any outstanding balance?

What are your (and others) thoughts?

Sparky.

katyb:

Hi all, with moneysupermarket's help I think I have finally sorted my problem.

That's great that the problem seems to be resolved.

You've highlighted something interesting. There doesn't seem to be any requirement for confirmation emails on switching to confirm the details of the switch, or even the new suppliers welcome emails to confirm the tariff details.

On my last dual-fuel switch (not Moneysupermarket but another "accredited" comparison website) the emails didn't confirm the tariff. Eventually Scottish Power set up one energy on standing charge, the other energy on no standing charge, not even a sold combination.

To flog my hobby horse again, I think that Consumer Focus has got more work to do. It almost looks to me like a meaningless accreditation.

Hi all, with moneysupermarket's help I think I have finally sorted my problem. Had a word with advisor Stefan who reassured me that the amount npower wanted to charge me was more in keeping with industrial rather than domestic usage so something had to be wrong. Npower have now contacted me to say there were over estimates and my final bill will now be around the 350 mark.

Heartening to read knighterrant's story and know I'm now the only one to have had this problem. Like he says, if there's a lesson to be learned it's to keep an eye on meter readings and double check your tarriff. What you sign up for is not always what you end up with!

Thanks for everyone's help and support

Hi all, thanks to moneysupermarket's help I think I have finally sorted my problem. Had a chat with advisor Stefan who reassured me that the consumption I was being charged for was more like industrial use so there had to be something wrong. I think he must have had a word in the right ear because npower have now contacted me to say the readings were estimates and my outstanding bill will be more around the 350 mark.

It was heartening to read knighterrant's story and know I am not the only one. Like he said, if there is a lesson to be learned it's to keep on top of meter readings and what charges are being levied. What you sign up for is not always what you end up with! Thanks to everyone for help and support.

Felicity King-Evans:

I completely agree with Knighterrant that it's essential to check every 12 months, but I disagree that it's 'extremely complicated'.

Sorry, I meant that the suppliers make all their different tariffs complicated - they will say it's to give us a choice. I strongly suspect that this is really so that they can compete favourably with each other. Then they rely on you not changing when the 12-month contract is over and they automatically revert you to the standard rate in the hope that you don't notice and do something about it.

Yes, it's relatively easy to make comparisons using any of the various sites such as this ...... as long as you have your average annual consumption figures.

Jalexa:

So I would ban comparisons on monthly payments and force comparisons on consumption, though such a radical suggestion is probably one for Consumer Focus (here I come).

I agree. For instance, in my case the monthly payments have been increased to pay off the outstanding balance so they're not a true reflection of what I'm paying for energy now.The actual consumption figure is the only one that counts when making realistic comparisons.

The other advantage of keeping a record of actual (not estimated) consumption is that it's easier to spot when something has gone wrong with the supplier's calculations and it also shows what the true benefits are of energy saving processes you've introduced during the year.

Everyone on this forum is online so it should be easy to provide your supplier with regular online meter readings. It certainly is with npower and I used to do it with British Gas.