To be honest, unless you haven't already done so, the only thing worth writing back is to say that without a properly executed credit agreement there is no liability to pay sums of money simply on account of "requests for payment" in relation to a "XXX Credit Card". No cause of action exists on the basis of such requests for payment In any event, it is denied that there has ever been a liability to pay you any sum whatsoever pursuant to contract or otherwise. Do state in any letter heading that 'you do not acknowledge any debt' to them.

Do you think there is any point in trying ti write to them again? Although i have asked several times for the CCA and get the same blank terms and conditions every time.

Thanks

Simple,

They haven't got the original or it is so full of holes they are embarrassed about it.

They will never admit to not having a compliant agreement, it is not in their interest to do so.

If they sow the seed of doubt, they may be able to collect.

From their point of view, its worth a go!

S

I got another letter from RMA on behalf of Barclaycard sending me yet another blank copy of the terms and conditions!!

I give up, i dont know what else to ask for now this is all they send. Surely if they have passed me over to RMA they should have a signed CCA.

Im sure ill get another letter through soon demanding money. I really dont know why it is so hard to send a copy of my CCA if they are so adament they have one, instead of keep sending me crap!

TBH I have found the regulatory bodies (FOS or ICO) to be about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike when attempting to force CCCs to admit they have no properly executed credit agreements or admit defaults are inaccurate.

The only recourse I know of is the courts. In this respect it is again my opinion that it is better to defend than attack.

Well i got a reply from my letter that i sent on the 26th Aug, it said that my account is on hold while they speak to BC about my CCA request. So ive not heard back from anyone on that yet but i got a letter from the FOS and they pretty much say that BC is right. Here is the letter:

Page one:

[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/kay_is_nuts/th_FOS1.jpg[/IMG]

Page Two:

[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/kay_is_nuts/th_FOS2.jpg[/IMG]

Not sure if I have added the right link. If you can read these, im not sure what I do next is it just wait to see if they take me to court then they'll have to provide the signed agreement. Visa said the same as BC when i requested my signed CCA but ive not heard from them in months so i guess ill be doing it all again soon when they realise.
________________________________________________________

All three of my Barclaycard accounts have been passed to Mercers then back to Barclaycard and now on to Calders. I've had the same line as Kay from them. I also went to FOS and actually not much has changed , if you speak to any of them on the phone, the message seems to be very mixed-could be this is a grey area for them?I realise they must be overloaded, but .....

Anyway, I was so stressed by the whole thing that I went to one of these claim firms we are warned against, they don't ask for upfront charges and their fees come from the other side.When they asked for the agreements, Barclaycard insisted on sending them via me,so I did get to see what they were sending and although they didn't send signed agreements, they did sent copies of agreements that would have been used at the time. I rang the claims firm to ask whether Barclaycard were now in breach and they said not.Barclaycard had complied with section 78 of the act by sending relevant copies, they would now examine them to see if they complied with the act and go down that route. Presumably if it does go to court they will have to supply signed agreements. If you read through CAG this point is debated at length and the opinion on there seems to be-if you want to see your signed agreement, requests under section 78 or SAR won't do it,they have fulfilled their obligations by sending T&C ,it has to be down the CPR route which is the stage where you are about to go to court and you have to mean it. If they still don't supply signed agreements, the court will enforce it.

This is what did it for me, CAG has some very good instructions when it comes to preparing your case for court, but it is all so wordy and lengthy that I felt overfaced. I suppose the best advice is bite by bite. There's no reason why you can't take them on and win, just have a look on CAG, it is very reassuring.I have 8 accounts that I am disputing, and I just felt I didn't have enough hours in the day and brain space to get them right.

In the meantime, there is a very useful statement by

Susan Edwards,

Head of Credit Investigations and Enforcement, Office of Fair Trading, concerning Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, dated May 2008. Specifically, comments regarding regulation 5-misleading statements and criminal offences; and regulation 7- aggressive practices.

It's a bit long to quote on here but if you can get it up, it's well worth a read as some DCA have definitely been overstepping the mark.It made me feel a whole lot better.

Hi Kay,

This is standard BC fare.

They need the proper agreement to do anything serious.

The statement that they do not need to send anything else is partly true. The regs require them to send the agreement with certain omissions and a copy of the current one, if they have changed it.

The harsh reality is that Court procedures require the production of the original for any trial, so this door is closed until they produce it.

I wouldn't concern yourself with the lack of agreement, this is their problem.

I expect they will shift the harassment up a gear next but I doubt that there will be a serious move to litigation, but don't rule it out.

Be ready, this can be easily dispatched.

remember that litigation has strict timescales attached so you will need to be ready to move quickly. I suggest you occupy yourself with preparations, just in case.

S

I dont know I dont understand it all to be honest, I have not seen a signed CCA just terms and conditions, I have been asking since last year to see it. Barclaycard have said they do not need to show me my CCA, and what they have sent me is all they need to.

I have only ever asked to see my CCA and sent the £1 postal order. I read in another thread also on Barclaycard someone having pretty much the same problems as me and it was suggested they sent £10 postal order and something to with SAR's. I have not done this should i do this so I can get all infomation they have on me or is it too late?

They've not sent me any CCA signed just a copy of the terms and conditions.

Kay

I understood BC hadn't provided any docs purporting to be an agreement?

They sent you this!!!!!!!?????

It scares me when this sort of thing comes from a recognised authority

Kay84:

the agreement will be unenforceable if the information is not given within 12 working days - but is enforceable again once the information is supplied.

The lender or hirer commits a criminal offence if the information is not provided within one month.

This offence was repealed in 2008. Why don't the FOS know this???

At the end of the day, the OC need the original agreement.

Kay84: In your letter of 17 January 2009 you say that Barcalycard provided you with a copy of your original agreement, therefore your debt is enforceable.

I'm concerned at this, what are they referring to? Is this just a reconstructed apology of an agreement or the real thing?

S

Hiya thanks for all the advice this is the email sent to me this morning form the FOS:

The credit agreement that Barclays hasprovided you is all that is required under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act:

In each case, if the information properly requested is not given:

the agreement will be unenforceable if the information is not given within 12 working days - but is enforceable again once the information is supplied.

The lender or hirer commits a criminal offence if the information is not provided within one month.

But it is important to note that the copy agreement does not have to be a carbon copy of the signed agreement or surety document, or show a signature by the borrower or surety – as many consumers assume must be the case. It could be a pro-forma copy of the agreement.

I can see from the correspondence you have provided that you originally requested a copy of your agreement on 27 October 2008. In your letter of 17 January 2009 you say that Barcalycard provided you with a copy of your original agreement, therefore your debt is enforceable.

As stated in my previous email the Financial Ombudsman Service cannot enforce Civil Procedures Rules as these relate to court matters and do not fall under the remit of the Service. Is there anything else you wish me to take into account when considering your complaint?

So in your oppinion what do you think is my best option or next move to be? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks :)

Hi Huckster,

Quite right.

The FOS interpretation is correct according to the relevant legislation.

CPR is out of the FOS jurisdiction, these are court rules.

The claimant will be required to produce the original executed agreement provided the defendent directs the court to this requirement - the court will only hear the evidence presented by either side, they will not do your defence for you.

CPR Practice Direction 32

Other documents

13.1

Photocopies instead of original documents may be exhibited provided the originals are made available for inspection by the other parties before the hearing and by the judge at the hearing.

13.2

Court documents must not be exhibited (official copies of such documents prove themselves).

13.3

Where an exhibit contains more than one document, a front page should be attached setting out a list of the documents contained in the exhibit; the list should contain the dates of the documents.

========================= ========================

Since the Act requires that the agreement be signed, then the claimant must be able to evidence this - plus all the other requirements as per s61.

If they go to court than this will normally kick off as a MCOL claim but will be allocated to a court upon submission of a defence - you must defend or you lose by default (Judgement in the absence of defence).

Whilst the CAB option is correct, you could also consider an offer in F&F payment - this could be a single payment or a schedule of payments. If you offer this then the claimant will struggle to move to court due to the over-arching requirement of CPR.

S

Kay84:So what does this mean? Do i just have to pay it now?

I think the FOS have just stated the facts. Barclaycard don't have to provide you with the original or signed agreement under S.78. They need only send you a copy of the agreement that would have applied.

If you mention CPR rules, the FOS will just withdraw very quickly. They will not get involved in any process for which the courts have rules for.

In regard to your current position you should wait to see if you receive a reply from your letter of 26th of August.

For CCA's entered into prior to 6/4/07 my understanding is that to enforce the debt in the courts, they would need to provide the court with your original signed agreement. Or rely on you not defending the court action and therefore obtaining a CCJ by default. No doubt basa or one of the other experts will clarify/correct this, if I am wrong.

The other alternative if you are getting abit weary with all of this, is to see Citizens Advice and perhaps get some advice about negotiating a reduced settlement of the debt with Barclaycard.

Huckster