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ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

Last post Sat, Sep 29 2007, 1:53 PM by Deaky. 49 replies.
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  •  Sat, Sep 29 2007, 1:53 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Email address: cutomer-service AT uk.orange.com 2007 Fax: 0870 374 8129 Page 1. Complaints Department Correspendence Address 31January. 2007 Complaint to Orange. Prior to January I was having a inordinate amount of problems with Orange. So as of January 2007, occasionally, I have been diarising these problems. I pay for a service from Orange. A service that is plainly not being provided. Orange are in breach of the 1967 Misrepresentation Act.. When your servers go down, heres a basic idea. How about recording a message letting people know there is a problem on your end and it is being fixed by your engineers, instead of making us wait for hours on end. Most ISP’s inform their customers of this service. The last phone call I made yesterday on the 30th January. To your customer service department. Taking a reading from the counter on my phone, read 01:09.55 minutes so far. On hold. Which is typical of your service. That was the third call to you yesterday. [The time of the last call was, 21:21 on the 30 Jan 2007.] And Im still I am not able to talk to anyone. The first two times I was on hold for over forty minutes and fifty minutes. Without talking to a single person. The reason Im calling is that your servers are down again. I was trying you all afternoon yesterday. I estimate, I was on hold without talking to a single person just yesterday, for over three hours and twenty minutes. Finally I gave up. This kind of waiting time, from 30 minutes, to well over an hour, and up to three hours and happens to me, nearly EVERY TIME I CALL. There are the times when I have the phone on speaker, next to me for over an hour, and you just know that no-one is going to answer. That you are in fact uncontactable. This has happened on a few occasions where ive left it for three hours!! And upon the call being answered, the person I talk to is not able to resolve the problem at all. And I am talking about some very basic stuff here. Including, for instance, waiting for 58 minutes, after requesting to talk to someone in your technical support department, only to be put through to an individual in your customer service department. Who was unable to offer any support whatsoever. And when they attempted to put me through to someone in technical support, the line went dead! Why do your options now state that if you want to be put through to somone in technical support press option ___[number]___ Then, after waiting for an unbelievable amount of time, put me through to customer service who have to qualify if the call should be put through to technical support? No other ISP does this. Wannadoo and Freeserve did not do this. PROBLEMS IVE HAD IN JUST THE LAST TWO WEEKS WOULD INCLUDE: EG. Not being able to use spamkiller with your web based mail service, for an old freeserve/wannadoo account, I requested the names of your smtp servers, and pop3 servers. So I could enter them manually into outlook express. The person in your technical support department who answered the phone did not even know to tell me to go to outlook express, and to my ‘mail accounts’, to change the details, instead directing me to access online orange Help pages, which do not explain at all how to resolve said problem. When I told him this. He put me back on hold. Waiting again to go through to a supervisor, who agreed a large number of your staff are unable to give me very basic advice. He informed me that the person was in fact in customer service, however the person assured me he was in technical support. Before this, ive had conversations with people, who, unable to resolve problems, so decide the best option is hanging up on me. Which is infuriating given that you’ve been on hold for so long. On average ive found about one in ten times, when and if you get through to someone, I get through to someone who possess’s some basic PC knowledge. But certainly not enough to deal with a technical issue. So why am I choosing phone options to talk to someone in technical support? And being put through to someone in customer service? Obviously, because you DO NOT HAVE enough technical support employes. Only customer service staff who are not properly trained to the level that every other ISP employs. You are setting a new standard for poor customer service. Why? I suppose it’s a matter of cost? And you think because weve all signed a contract, you can do as you please, because we are legally obliged to pay you, in my case for eighteen months. Over the course of my contract, Ive spent tens of hours waiting for orange to answer the phone. This is not an exagerration, it is accurate. IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. AOL, Telewest, Pipex, BT.Com, even freeserve and wannadoo. Had much better trained people employed, and their waiting times were, or are far far less. Ive had accounts with all these people And never had to wait so long with them on hold. And they normally put you through to somebody who is actually in technical support. I have spent hours and hours and hours waiting on the phone to Orange trying to resolve very basic problems. And there have been other problems I have had with Orange I have not mentioned. Created by Orange. My experience of your company thus far has been exceedingly poor. If this continues, I will write to you, stating that you are in breach of your contract with myself, and that Orange have failed to provide a basic level of support and sevice, in breach of articles of English Law. These articles were created and exist so that the consumer can expect your company to honour its agreement, regarding the provision of a service you stated, verbally and in writing that you would provide. A service that you have breached on too many occasions to count. Im sure you will refer me to your terms, but I would inform you, from my own experince,as a manager of a consulting company, based in London and Leeds, that just because its your companies policy that I must stay with Orange for 18 months, it will not neccesarily be viewed that way by the mercantile, or county courts. THE PRESENT PROBLEM: It is now the 31st January, and I have managed to reach someone from customer service who has informed me that there is a problem with your servers, and then hung up on me. Specifically when I asked them what the problem was, the line went dead. On the second phone call, when I informed someone that I had been on hold for over three hours yesterday, and asked why they don’t record something, letting your customers know there is a problem? They hung up on me. Next phone call, hung up on me. The next person got halfway through the issue, then told me they could not help me anymore, because your system is down and will be for the rest of the day. I have now been informed after carrying out the standard tests, such as unplugging cables, and shutting PC down, that I need to talk to someone in bristol technical support, but they will not take my call, because your system is down. [Finally got through to someone: They tell me because I am not in a LLU area, there has been no report of a problem, and, if and when I finally do get through to someone in technical support bristol, to complete the diagnostic tests you carry out over the phone, that it could take up to 5 days before the BT engineer fixes the problem. If there is a problem at my exchange.] The problem was finally dealt with a day later. By someone in technical support who informed me that it was a problem you customer service staff should have diagnosed and dealt with on the first call. THIS IS THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME IVE BEEN ABLE TO GET THROUGH TO SOMEONE IN TECHNICAL SUPPORT. My last bill with Orange was £84.59, and over £16 DD for wireless and talk. I expect more for my money. I have recorded a number of these ridiculos conversations with Orange which outline the problems I have been having. All I want is to be able to use the service you stated you could provide. I have had nothing but problems with you from day one. These problems are the worst ive ever encountered from a company that offers an ISP service. [If I treated my clients like this, I would be out of work] How do you dare treat me, one of your customers in this fashion? Addition: 22nd Febraury: All the Pc’s in the house are not able to connect to the internet. As of 5:30pm. [Also, COULD LOG ON THIS MORNING, BUT NOT GET ONTO YOUR WEBSITE.] So ive been trying to contact someone at Orange since six pm. My phone counter reads 1hour twelve minutes five seconds on hold. [Please check this yourself. You have my bill] Time is now 19:31 22nd february. Ive just called again, and after about twenty minutes hung up, called back and chosen the options for billing. After explaining the situation to the person in billing, he managed to put me straight through to a customer services representative in Broadband. Who after trying, was unable to solve the problem. [Obviously because hes not in technical support] He assured me he would have someone from technical support call me back within a few minutes. After a few minutes he sent me a text stating that ‘someone from technical support was just loading his systems, and would call me straight away’. Martin. This of course never happened. Im still awaiting a call. [This has also happened to me on a number of different occasions.] What this really means is that Orange ,are, in fact UNCONTACTABLE, and once again, Orange are in breach of their contract which specifically states you will provide TECHNICAL support. [One of things that angers me is that if I were to call your sales line, id get straight through to someone. At any time on any day. Your whole philosophy as a company is to drag people on board, when you already have way more customers than you can support. How about spending some of our money on more support staff?] I should send you an invoice for the amount of time ive wasted trying to get through to you. I am now seriously considering, resorting to the only recourse I have left. The only thing your company will understand. To wait, until the end of my eighteen month contract, then not pay you for the final two months of my contract. This is entirely your own fault. And I would direct you to my above comments regarding your terms. The amount of time and frustration ive had to put up with, with regards to your company, is unbelievable. Im calling right now, to try and resolve the original and I am still on hold. Ive had accounts with orange for nearly ten years. Including dealing with your corporate sales executives who deal with SME’s. At the end of my present contract I will never use you again. There are many other problems I have had with Orange from the very beginning of getting my contract. When I first tried to acquire a new contract from you from either ‘retentions’ or ‘upgrades’ they both told me different deals, each saying they could not offer what the other could. However, it was only after a number of phone calls. [Above FORTY phone calls] That it was explained to me that these deals were offered by different departments. And they changed daily. How do you expect your customers to know this? By telepathy!!? Even when I called back and explained that a certain deal I had been offered included for instance, a headset, they swore to me that would never happen!! Basically accusing me of making up my own deals. The right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. [Upon finally choosing a phone I was informed the phones are out of stock and would be in next week. Four weeks later, they still were not in. The SPV phone. So I went with the K800I] I have been told innacurate information, which is still today costing me money with you. For instance, that I have to re-register my old dial up accounts with wannadoo, within every three months, on a Premium rate phone line. Ive since learned that this was innacurate, that I can do this online somehow, but I have called on a number of occasions, and your staff have been unable to tell me how. This is plainly incorrect information. If there is some way to do this online, without incurring premium costs, your staff have not been able to tell me how. I have been put through to India in the past, whilst doing this. [Supervisor told me I was calling Bristol] The communication was a problem. I asked your sales staff about this specific issue before I agreed to the eighteen month contract. Your staff told me so long as I enter my old freeserve address into the web based mail account, every three months it would not be cancelled. 19th june: over th last few wekks, maybe 5 or 6, I have been told that my broadband speed would be increased up to 2meg. This has stil not happened, ive had to call back on at least five occasions and ask why, and explain what was supposed to happen. Still not happened. Ive been told today how to change my wireless and talk settings, so far been on phone with four different people, for over an hour, still not resolved. All I want to do is stop using my 0845 number as an answermessage, and use my bt answer phone on my handest. Still not working. I have now spent over three hours on the phone with orange, talking to people in technical support and customer service. I have been told wrong, innacurate misleading information. After much much frustration, upset, hassle, and stress. As I need my phone today to recieve calls from clients. I have finally been told, in the wireless and talk settings page, under call handling, apparently, not all of the features you offer are available, as I have been told they are, by your people in technical support. Specifically, the ability to turn off my orange answer service, so I can use a normal answerphone, on the base unit of my bt phone. Which tech support informed me I could do. So again, because your services are not working, I am left in a situation, not knowing what to do. There is apparently no resolution to these problems. Now over four hours into this problem. Finally discovered the problem is at your end. Your wireless and talk settings are not working. Because they are new. NOBODY IN YOUR SUPPORT CENTRE CAN TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, IN FACT THEY TELL ME IT MAY NOT WORK. NOBODY AT ORANGE WHO I CAN REACH ON THE PHONE KNOWS IF IT WILL WORK OR NOT. I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY A LADY IN TECH SUPPORT TODAY THAT IF I FORWARD CALLS, I WILL NOT BE CHARGED ANY EXTRA. 21 june. I really need my pc today for work. Im at home. Ive carried out the checks on the phone with tech support. The problem is that your server is down. And will be for 4 hours. Tech support said it was the ppp server problem and they were aware of it and trying to fix it. Nobody got back in touch regarding the problems with your voice mail service. Obviously that does not work. As it should, as I have been told numerous times by your staff. 14th july. Your server is down again, ive done the usual; reset the livebox, etc. re-entered my details onto the ip page:  its still not working. THE SERVER GOES DOWN EVERY MONTH WITHOUT FAIL. I HAVE TO SPEND TIME DOING THIS EVERY SINGLE MONTH. 25th July the service is down again,. I have now made six phone calls, starting with tech support for live box, who mtold me to get in touch with customer support, who tld me to call tech support, who told me to call the other tech support for orange. I carried out three factory resets this morning, [something I am know having to do every two weeks on average with varying results] Finally its working, however, I have just carried out a speed test. Which states that my Date 20/07/07 10:57:36 Speed Down 1189.87 Kbps ( 1.2 Mbps ) Speed Up 364.25 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps ) Port 8095 Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk Link: You can give out this URL to other people to show them this speedtest result. Your speeds are shown in red on the graph below. These speeds are not 2meg as you assure me they would be. They bare only 0.4 meg. five times slower than i am paying for. Of course yout TandC's state up to 2.5 meg, so i suppose you think, thats ok? Ive just been passed around every department this morning, who tell me to go around again. And again and again. Valentino at live box tech support. Sue at customer service. Normal tech support. Customer service Live box tech support. Customer service. Ive spent over three hours on the phone this morning. Round and round and round we go. Still no-one can tell me when and if my speed has been increased. I have been told over the last two months it would be time and time again. In previous conversations. 17th August. Every few days your service has been down. Once again I have called your technical support line, and they cannot tell me what the problem is. I pay you for a service, a service that is not being provided. Has in fact not been provided by orange since the day I signed up for your broadband. Looking back on this list of issues, at seven pages long it seems excessive, however, half the time I don’t even bother calling you when I have problems. So this letter should be at least 14 pages long. At least five times during the past two weeks I have been unable to go online, and when I do, it is extremely slow to do anything. Date 19/08/07 11:46:59 Speed Down 987.44 Kbps ( 1 Mbps ) Speed Up 372.28 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps ) Port 8095 Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk 2.5meg? I don’t think so. [This is a wired connection test, not through the broadband.] I have finally been told by a lady in CS that your broadband has been runing slower than it should do for the last three months! no reason why. she did not know when it would be back to normal speed. however, i pay for 2.5 meg, and it has never been above 1.2 meg speeds. you blatantly lie about 2.5 meg speed. As suaul I had to talk to ten different people before i got the truth September Huge problems again. Just found out I should be getting 200 minutes and 300 minutes and 150 minutes orange to orange. None of which ive been getting. Took me days to sort out. I signed up for an 18 month contract, you have tried to stop the free minutes after 12 months!!! I was specifically told the minutes were for the life of the contract My original contract with orange stated that my inclusive minutes included 150 orange to orange minutes. [orange for life promotion] on ON PEAK times, so long as I was calling another person who had an orange contract phone. Not a pay as you go phone. Ive discussed this with customer service, billng, and sales departments, who inform me this is correct. It is stated as being correct on your system. Notes have been placed on my account that this is correct, by the registration team. However, purely because they cannot be bothered, the recalculation team, [who are uncountable by phone] still have refused to refund my monies. Spent three hours on the phone yesterday, four times, I called back to be told that your system was down, and they could not help. You are beyond incompetent. Readers of this post. I promise you i have not listed half the problems i have had with Orange. Most of time because Im busy working etc. and the entire reason I started to diarise events, was because prior to 2007, I was having so many problems with Orange, I decided to occasionally diarise events. They seem to offer the cheapest packages, but believe me......you will suffer...
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, Jul 05 2007, 8:26 AM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi all

    Just to report that our transfer from Orange to BT went very smoothly - I wrote earlier that once we had decided to switch our MAC code was received in 48 hours, I booked a change over with BT and the only annoyance was that Orange turned us off on the wrong day so we had 1 day without either the new or the old service. It is also true that once we cancelled our account our service suddenly was working again - strange huh! I am happy to report that all goes smoothly now with our new supplier. Good luck to you all! -- Vee

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Jul 03 2007, 8:12 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi Jan

    Sorry to hear of your problems with Orange - the problem is they don't communicate with one another. I stopped my Direct Debit after I had been left without broadband access for a month, and after someone in Orange advised me to. Obviously, with no broadband and no access to the emails the account section didn't email me instead they rang me - we were on the phone to them for over an hour and this time they had to pay the call charge.

    At last we got through to someone who did help - his name was Paul Donaldson, he is based in the escalations dept. He tries to get things sorted out and is a customer liaison officer - we faxed him our complaint and suggest you do likewise. He has also sorted out payment for the calls we have made to Orange - for these we faxed our telephone bills which our itemised underlining the calls to them. I wrote a letter to Orange and copied in the local press, Mail on Sunday, BBC Watchdog as well as many others - I listed the dates and times of calls made to Orange, who I had spoken to and what their response was.

    I do hope that you get sorted.

    Tremic



    Edited in line with Terms of Service - please do not post personal details pertaining to others without their express permission.

    Community Editor
    • Post Points: 5
  •  Tue, Jul 03 2007, 2:29 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Thanks Jason, I will give the higher complaints dept a try.  I do know about CISAS but the issue does have to have been onging for 13 weeks before they will take it up. I will try this route if necessary. I don't like letting the 'big boys' walk all over me so I'm up for a fight if necessary, I've used an arbitrator in the past over a holiday dispute so I am familiar with the long, drawn out procedure.  If I don't win I won't be losing much and I can do a lot of shouting on the way down!

    Jan

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Tue, Jul 03 2007, 1:37 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi Jan

    Have you taken this to Orange's High Level Complaints Dept?

    My advice is to write a letter to Orange and send it by recorded delivering asking them what is their complaints proceedure.

    You can also ask them to investigate your case and send a letter back to you with their findings, (they should tell you when they will get back to you).

    If you cannot resolve the matter with them directly then you have reached what is known as 'deadlock' in a dispute, this means that you may want to consider an independent arbitration such as CISAS or Otelo to act as a mediator in your case.

    Providers don't like working with arbitrators as it costs them time and resources to do this but it can often be worthwhile - NB: be aware that you might not succeed and CISAS or Otelo could decide that Orange are in the right here.

    I hope this helps?

    Cheers

    Jason

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Tue, Jul 03 2007, 1:26 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi Tremis

    I have waited to reply to your email as I wanted to see what would happen next. As the payment is on a Visa debit card the bank cannot stop the payments coming through but have now claimed them back as I was in dispute with Orange. I have just received an email from Orange saying that as I owe them two months payments (for what I would like to know - it certainly wasn't for a broadband connection!!), they have charged me £5 for late payment and have asked me to call their Cutsomer Services (again? I have just received my phone bill - it shows that I have called them 13 times).

    They are also threatening legal action.

    Has anyone else gone down this route with them?

    Jan

    • Post Points: 35
  •  Thu, Jun 21 2007, 12:06 AM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi Abel

    So pleased to hear that you are at last free of Orange and I hope that everything goes well with BT.  I haven't been on this site for a while since being sorted out with Virgin, although we seem to be having teething problems (so to speak) with them. 

    Never got up and running with Sky - they put the order through twice and don't seem to be able to cancel one - although it seems to be a simple thing to do.  Must get in touch with them again and find out what is happening - I have their modem but no login and password yet!!  Beginning to think they are as bad as Orange.

    Tremic 

     

    • Post Points: 5
  •  Thu, Jun 14 2007, 11:55 AM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Dear All,

    Just to let you know I am finally X orange broadband customer! HURRAY !!!!!!!!! I cancelled Orange BB and waited a littel over 12 days. Though the line still had Orange tags, after telling BT I will be your customer and orange are stopping me doing this!! I don't know what they did but they rung me within few hours to tell me the line was clear.

    Now I have ordered BT broadband option 3 and waiting for the gadgets to arrive by 22 June 2007. I was a bit worried when  Dai (honourable BB Guru in this forum)told me I will have to pay for activation fee unless I wait for MAC code etc. Thanks Dai...but I think these people do things different from convention.

    So anyone out there wanting to switch from ORANGE - DO NOT WAIT FOR MAC CODE - ORANGE WILL MAKE SURE YOU SUFFER FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS. CANCELL THE ACCOUNT, and you should get your line clear of ORANGE THUGS (upps...got carried away...TAGS) and order a new broadband again. The whole idea of MAC code is - to make sure you don't have service interruption - THERE IS NO SERVICE WITH ORANGE anyway:) good luck

    Abel

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Jun 03 2007, 7:05 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi Jan

    As you have paid for something on VISA and you have not received it - the credit card company may be able to claim back the money on your behalf.  I was with Freeserve then Wanadoo and at that time they wouldn't take payment on bank cards so paid with VISA - when they changed to Orange I began to pay through the bank via direct debit.  As soon as I had problems with Orange I cancelled my direct debit with the bank and contacted Visa, just in case Orange still had their details and asked them to make a note on my account not to make any payments to Orange if asked.

    I do hope that Visa can claim this money back for you.

    Tremic

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Jun 03 2007, 5:22 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi everyone

     

    My Orange connection was down for 6 weeks.  I have spent hours on the phone talking to thier customer services and support teams. After a month I told them as they weren't supplying me with the service I was paying for I wanted to cancel.  I was put through to the sales team who offered me a free month and dial up until they had the connection working again, I refused this and was told the MAC would be sent within 5 days.  What they didn't tell me was that as I was still in contract with them I would still have to pay.  I had stupidly paid on my VISA card so have no control over the monthly payment.  I decided to try and sort it out again with them but after numerous phone calls and promises not kept by them that they would sort it out within 24hours/3 days/5days, I have now given up and have gone to another provider.

    Funnily enough on the days the transfer happened Orange phoned twice while I was out saying that they had finally found a way to get the connection working and asked me to call the support team to get things underway. What a joke!

    All I have have to do now is to hope that my bank will be prepared to get the monthly fee back.

    Jan 

     

     

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Sun, Jun 03 2007, 1:26 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Dai

    Can you take a look at a post on the Re Orange and LLU string from Cliff posted on the 1st June.  I have given him my response but think that you may be able to help him with more info.

    Cheers, Tremic

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, May 30 2007, 4:28 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Abel:

    Hello Dai,

    That's a lesson on MAC codes to me:) thank you:) But I would rather pay for activation than wait Orange to provide me one!! it's not really waiting for months and the agro that comes with it!!!

    Thanks any way:)

    Abel

    Even if you wanted to, you cannot pay for a new activation if an ISP marker is still on your line! You need to take this case to OFCOM and insist that they act upon their own regulations or you'll need to cease your PSTN line altogether and seek an ISP who will action a simultaneous PSTN/ADSL provision. The latter will cost you dearly!

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, May 30 2007, 4:20 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hello Dai,

    That's a lesson on MAC codes to me:) thank you:) But I would rather pay for activation than wait Orange to provide me one!! it's not really waiting for months and the agro that comes with it!!!

    Thanks any way:)

    Abel

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, May 30 2007, 4:12 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Tremic:MAC code was useless as there were still Orange tags on the line and it was not until 18th May that they were removed and BT called us to let us know the line was clear. Keep on at that them and check with BT wholesale to see if there are any tags on your line - I hope that you don't have the same problems as we did....

    You have almost certainly undergone a cease and reprovide. To put it simply, the losing providers tag is always on the line until the MAC is processed. At that point, the tag is changed to that of the gaining provider. If all tags are removed, no DSL is deemed to be present and an activation fee will need to be paid. This is the very essence of the MAC initiative.

    • Post Points: 20
  •  Wed, May 30 2007, 4:03 PM

    Re: ATTENTION: ex-Wanadoo / Orange customer case studies required for BBC Radio 4

    Hi Tremic,

    Thank you very much...I would love to see files and really appreciate this. Please convert this to email as automated email grabbers from the web won't be able to spam my address:) atawalom AT defaqto DOT com.

    Thank you Tremic:)

    • Post Points: 5
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