My husband has defaults registered against him for four credit cards (Cap 1 ~ Goldfish ~ Marbles ~ Solution Finanace). They have all been transfered to Debt Collection Agencies. There are also 2 catalogues (Littlewoods ~ Kays). These went into default late last year. I have only a Barclaycard with a small credit limit which has no arrears, computer finance with low monthly payment and a catalogue which has a small balance. We have a joint loan we took out 3 years ago which has no arrears. We remorgaged our home at the end of last year to get rid of a secured loan for 5k as they were presurising for clearance of the arrears or court action would be iminent. We also cleared £1200 mortgage arrears.

I refused to borrow any additional money to clear these cards. I made offers of payments to some of these people for £10.00 per week, some £5.00 per week and one at £15.00 per month. I tried to maintain all payments but did miss some which meant we got the standard letter asking to bring payments up to date.

2 month ago my husband took a drop in his wages due to overtime being cancelled and | made an appointment with CAB to help with my finances. They have told me that all the debt is classed as the same and if we wanted their help, all my debt has to go in as well.

This means we have to put ourselves further into debt than we already are as I would have to stop paying mine. No credit card for emergencies and no catalogue for clothes if needed.

Is this correct? I know it has to be paid but why should I have to default to get his sorted?

Cap 1 & Marbles refuse to remove charges, PPI and interest from the debt. Goldfish and Solution Finance never even bothered to reply to the request for statements. God knows what they did with the £10.00 postal Order.

Can anybody help me? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am really getting weary of dealing with these people. I see posts re CCA request, but cant find template.

Thanks in advance of you taking time to help me.

I would definately send a CCA request to all your 'difficult' creditors/debt collection agents, template below, remember DO NOT SIGN and send a £1 postal order for each request.

Dear Sir/Madam

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

Ref: [enter your ref here]

I am presently striving to organise my personal information and can find no reference to the alleged debt and/or agreement on you appear to have been assigned to collect.

Therefore, please supply me with a true copy of the original agreement.

You will appreciate that this is my right and your legal obligation under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I also understand that it is your obligation to provide me with a statement of account and I look forward to receiving that as well.

Since you are a Debt Collection Agency, please also supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

Again, this is you will appreciate a statutory obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please find enclosed my £1 statutory fee, this fee is not to be offset against any alleged debt.

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

Yours faithfully,

Print name do not sign

Send the above to whoever is chasing you CAB or CCCS will only help if all debts are included but you should be able to do it all yourself. To find out what charges have been added you could send a subject access request (SAR) to the original creditor, template below, again don't sign and send a £10 postal order for each account.

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

Yours faithfully,

You can't dispute the debt for them not having an agreement and also claim charges back so go with the CCA request first and see what they have (Cap 1 will have nothing enforcable almost certainly). If they do have the necessary paperwork then send the SAR and start claiming back. Google 'CAG CCA request' and 'CAG claiming back charges' you should find everything you need there

Thank you so much. I understand the letters more now. I was confused as to which order they were sent. Obviously I have no problem with paying these people, they just wont amend the ammounts. I have informed them about the CAB. I will send the letters this weekend.

Again - Thank You.

Well I sent out the CCA requests as promised. 1st Credit (Golfish) have put the account on hold for 30 days whilst they get the relevant paperwork from their client. CapQuest (Capital 1) & Moorcroft (Littlewoods & Kays) have yet to reply.

Weightmans (Marbles) have sent a letter saying they are requesting information from their client. They say they are teating my letter as a subject access request and they do not hold any data on me. For the avoidance of doubt, I should note that

- they are not the creditor; mearly acting on behalf of them.

- at this stage, we only have the essential data regarding my debt to their client and

- any communication between Marbles and them is subject to legal privilage and will therfore not be disclosed to me.

It says they are returning my fee, (which was not in the envelope) and they suggest I contact their client direct (they just refer me back to Weightmans.

It also says that I must contact them as a matter of urgency to discuss the debt to their client. Notwithstanding my request for documents, they reserve the right to take further legal action if I have not contacted them within 7 days.

Any advice on what I can do now. Obviously I am not going to telephone them. I thought that it was in dispute untill they send me the enforceable documents. Can they still proceed with court action? Have I now got on the wrong side of them by sending this CCA request.

Thanks.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Well they are coming back thick and fast now, so any help anyone can give me would be grafeully received.

Moorcroft have put everything on hold for 30 days whilst they get the docs from their client but ask me which docs i will be using to contest any action ?????? Can I write back saying statements that prove only their clients charges are now outstanding as the amount I owed has been paid.

Capital one have sent me a copy of the application form filled in March 2004. It does say it is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. Sign it only if i want to be legally bound by its terms.

Help!!! What do I do now?

OK so the mind games have begun!!!

If you have sent a CCA request to these companies, it is there responsibility to satisfy it. They have 12+2 days to send it otherwise the account is in dispute and if they send anything other than an enforcable agreement, the account stays in dispute until they find one!

Once you have sent it, you do nothing until they start demanding payment again. They are the supposed experts at debt management and consumer legislation so you do nothing. They are just trying to baffle you into giving up and paying. They all know that they have to comply and until the do they can't do Jack.

Capital One have sent you an application form......most application forms are not enforcable....does it mention on the same page as your signature (and theirs) how they will determine your credit limit, what the APR will be etc (google 'CAG is my agreement enforcable sticky' for more info). I am guessing it doesn't....if it hasn't got the right info on the page with your signature then it is unenforcable and they can't do anything. They could write something like 'by signing this you agree to give us your first born son and pay us £2m per day' but without the legal requirements it means nothing. It's just the game they play.

If after googling the above you find (and I am sure you will) that it is an unenforcable application form send them the following:

Dear Sir/Madam

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

Ref: [enter your ref here]

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78, dated [enter date here].

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves.

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

On [enter date here] I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on [enter date 12+2 days after you sent the request here]
Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

This period has now lapsed.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

I WILL ONLY COMMUNICATE IN WRITING.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me, in writing, with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Print Name, don't sign

As for Weightman's they are playing the old 'we have the right to chase and harass you and take your money, but if you ask us to comply with our legal obligation, it wasn't us gov' game. Ignore them, if they choose to send the £1 back thats up to them, they are legally obligied to request the information from there client and send it to you. After the 12+2 days they shouldn't do anything, including court action, until they provide an enforcable agreement. If they were stupid enough (and believe me some are!) to start court action, then you would have a complete defense as they can't prove they have the legal right to collect and that the debt actually exists and is yours. Just relax, ignore the phone calls, file the letters as evidence and watch them huff and puff!! If they demand payment after the 12+2 days then report them to trading standards, again google 'CAG CPUTR' and you'll get the info.

You could send the following to your local Trading Standards office:

Your address
Date

Dear Sir/Madam

Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUT)

Formal complaint against [Name of Debt Collection Agency here]

I am writing to complain under the above CPUT regulations. I am receiving letters and telephone calls from [DCA] in respect a purported debt which I understand is governed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In accordance with the Consumer Credit Act I asked [the DCA] to supply me with a true copy of the Consumer Credit agreement. [They have failed to do so/ supplied me with a document which clearly fails to satsify the Consumer Credit Act.] I enclose a copy of that document with this letter.

Although I have pointed this out to [DCA] they have failed to acknowledge this and continue to contact me and to harrass me with threats of action.

Clearly they are entitled to bring a legal action if they so wish. However, they have not done so and appear instead to be relying upon a campaign of systematic contact with accompanied by threats.

I consider that [DCA] are operating an unfair commercial practice and it is for this reason that I am sending you this complaint.

I enclose examples of the letters which they have been sending to me. I also enclose a log and verbatim notes of phone calls I have received.

I would be grateful if you would acknowledge this letter and let me know what procedures you now intend to follow and what your targets for action are.


Yours faithfully



sign the letter

Fill in/remove the red bits as necessary.

CAG really is the place to get help as there are thousands of people doing just what you are and getting the same cr*p back so go on there and post.

For any Debt collector or creditor that hasn't sent you an agreement but continues to harrass you then send the following after the 12+2 days

Dear Sir/Madam

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

THIS ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY IN DISPUTE

Ref: {enter ref here]

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER YOUR CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE.

On [enter date here], I sent a consumer credit act 1974 s77-79 request for a true copy of my credit agreement, with the prescribed payment.

I have still not received a copy of my credit agreement.

Please rectify this immediately, and send me information about your complaints procedure and the person, who is dealing with my account,

Yours Faithfully,

Print name, don't sign

Hope this helps.

Tartan Army, just a note to say "thanks" for all you do on these posts. Your templates are fantastic and I'm not ashamed to say I've ripped them all off!!!! Seriously though, you're a credit to this forum. ;o)

---

No bother, all my templates come from the good people at the Consumer Action Group (CAG) Debt Forum so no thanks required. It is a shame that this site see's CAG as a competitor so I am not allowed to post links to it but I would recommend that anyone with debt issues/questions goes there as there are thousands of people there fighting as a group and more often then not defeating these scum debt collectors.

TA --- What RS has posted also reflects my thoughts, it's great to have allies who are of the same mind as both of yourselves, who have the intention of unselfishly helping out the other members who need help.

I have just received a letter from Response Credit Management who say I am ignoring their attempts to contact me. Can I issue the template letter on this thread which requests they issue me with their complaints procedure. They say they are arranging for a doorstep collections agency to call. Help please. My husband would not deal with anybody at the door. I am not ignoring these people, they are just not doing what I am asking. Which of the letters listed above do I send now. I am sending all these letters recorded delivery, so I have proof of postage.

I can see why people just give up and pay. I am not objecting to paying, it is the charges I am disputing. This agency is collecting on behalf of SKY tv and the SAR was sent to them on 9th September 2008 - recorded delivery.

Any help would be gratefully received as usual.

Right number 1.......CALM DOWN!!

These cretins use these types of tactics to get you to the state you are in now. It is unlikely anyone will come to your house but send them this:

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

Account Number: XXXXXXX

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Please treat this also as a formal complaint, and send me a copy of your company complaints procedure.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

Moreover, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.'

Yours faithfully,


[NAME HERE] (type don't sign)

Keep a copy by the door and if anyone does turn up just hand it to them and ask them to leave....they have no rights at all.

They have 40 days to send you your SAR info so its early days yet and send them a CCA aswell, that should slow them down.

Let us know how you get on.

That letter sounds great, but they are not telephoning me. This all came in a letter today. They say :-

From our investigations we are aware you are

1) Clearly listed as an ex-directory telephone subscriber

2) Resident at the above address

3) Ignoring our attempts to contact you to resolve this situation.

Should you not contact us to arrange payment you may leave us with no alternative to

1) Refer your account to ScotCall who specialise in doorstep collections. This may result in an agent calling at your address to make the necessary arrangements to fully satisfy the debt.

2) Refer your account to the legal partner Geoffrey Parker Bourne - Solicitors to progress via litigation.

It then states I must contact them now to make a payment. I have never spoke to these people on the phone as they do not have a contact telephone number for us. My landline has caller display and anonymous call baring on it. Can I substitute telephone for letter and use the letter that way. I would prefer not to ignore it altogether. Thanks again.

Right this sounds like a standard letter from these cretins....know in the debt fighting communities threatomatic letter (i.e. they have a PC that just automatically throughs out threat letters regardless of what you have said to them!) Notice the 'we may' do this and 'we may' do that......its all sh*te.

Have you sent them a CCA request letter yet? If not do it now as it sounds like you have just sent the SAR.

For info the normal route would be:

1. Get a letter from a random debt collector

2. Send a CCA request to see if they have the paperwork

3. If, and only if, they have an enforcable agreement along with a notice of assignment letter etc then SAR them to see what 'extras' they have added to the balance.

If they aren't phoning you then you could modify the harrassment letter to something like:

Dear Sirs

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

THIS ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY IN DISPUTE

Account Number: XXXXXXX

On [enter date] I sent a Data Subject Access Request to confirm what, if any, alleged debt you are pursuing against me. I believe any alleged debt would consist of unlawful penalty charges and therefore would render the account in dispute.

I shall not be contacting your company either by letter or telephone until my Data Subject Access Request has been satisfied and I am certain that any alleged debt is due.

Moreover, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

Please send me information about your complaints procedure and the person, who is dealing with my account,

Yours faithfully,


[NAME HERE] (type don't sign)

To be honest it is very unlikely anyone will actually turn up so maybe just print a copy of the above out and keep it by the door. If they do turn up then hand them a copy, ask them to leave and shut the door. If they don't just ring the police.

Did you keep the receipts for the postal orders as you can ring the post office and they will tell you if they have been cashed (google it). If they have been cashed then they have 40 days to send the info through otherwise send them a letter like:

Dear Sir/Madam

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

THIS ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY IN DISPUTE

Ref: 3972108

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER YOUR CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE.

On [enter date], I sent a Data Subject Access Request, with the prescribed payment.

I have still not received a copy of the information I have requested.

Please rectify this immediately, and send me information about your complaints procedure and the person, who is dealing with my account,

Yours Faithfully,

Print Name, don't sign

Should they still ignore you then report them to the Information Commissioner.

In summary get a CCA request off to these muppets ASAP if you haven't already and ignore the tripe they send through until the 12+2 days is up then complain.

I sent out the SAR to all of the DCA's which were chasing. Goldfish, Marbles and Cap 1 have already had requests for statements in April 2008.

Cap 1 - overlimit charges £136, late payment charges £216 and PPI £131. Debt passed £902. Capquest settlement offer April 2008 £436. Cap1 agreed £60 credit. I requested Capquest knock the £60 off (making £376) and I would settle. Refused. Started chasing again for £902.

Goldfish never acknowledged my letter, dont know what they did with postal order. DCA promised to get them but nothing ever materialised.

Marbles - late payment fee £168 and PPI £144. Debt passed £408. Currently paid £210. Marbles flatly refused to knock any charges off and Weightmans do the same. Cheeky settlement offer of £80 rejected.

Solution Finance - Debt of £360 wrote off after paying £180 and making a serious complaint regarding the DCA's actions.

Kays have just sent a letter saying they unable to locate a copy of an executed agreement but for my information they enclose a copy of the current agreement. £42 currently outstanding. Debt passed £180. Charges applied £72.

Littlewoods have yet to reply.

This is the letter I sent out.

I am presently striving to organise my personal information and can find no reference to the alleged debt and/or agreement on you appear to have been assigned to collect.

Therefore, please supply me with a true copy of the original agreement.

You will appreciate that this is my right and your legal obligation under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I also understand that it is your obligation to provide me with a statement of account and I look forward to receiving that as well.

Since you are a Debt Collection Agency, please also supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

Again, this is you will appreciate a statutory obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please find enclosed my £1 statutory fee, this fee is not to be offset against any alleged debt.

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

Is this a CCA or SAR request???

I will deff send complaints letter to Response Credit Management. Should I send Sky a Request for statements as well? YOU ARE A STAR FOR ALL THIS INFO!!!! THANK YOU!

Right back to basics:

There are 2 strategies for dealing with debt cretin collectors (and original creditors)

1. Send of a CCA request and see if they have an enforcable agreement. If they don't then you don't pay anything and they can't do anything. The debt never goes away but they can't get you to pay unless you want to.

2. Send a SAR request - this is used when they have an enforcable agreement or if you know there are charges and want to claim them back (usually when the charges are more than the debt)

You can't claim back charges if they don't have a enforcable agreement as that's like saying 'the debt is nothing to do with me but can I have all the charges back for the debt that is mine!' It's one or the other

The letter in your last post is a CCA request so not sure how you got all the details of the charges?! Did you send a £1 postal order with each one? Did any of them reply saying they were looking for the agreement etc (except Kays)?

As for Kays, I am afraid it is game over..........for them!!! After the 12+2 days you can legally stop paying them anything. If they want you to pay they must provide the actual agreement you signed when the account was set up, a current version is meaningless! 1 down 5 to go!