I'm back but only beacuse its you MissMink!

Thye can send you a copy of an agreement without signatures that has been reconstructed to look like the agreement you would have signed BUT.....

......this only satisfies your request and demonstrates that they don't have an agreement so should it go to court they would have to provide the original or a true copy of the original. In other words they are screwed!!!

As for TS, if you read around their performance I think you will find they never do anything about CCA complaints so don't worry about their letter.

I have received a response from my local trading standards office regarding my letter of complaint with 1st credit. It says:-

""You complaint has been allocated to Mrs ******* who will make some initial enquireis re the trading practices of 1st credit and should be in contact with you within 3 working days of this acknowledgement.

In your letter you refer to 1st Credit and to 77 + 78 of the CCA 1974. As you rightly point out these refer to the requirements to provide a true copy of the agreement. As the account appears to be a credit card account the relevant section would be section 78. A true copy is not an exact reproduction of the original agreement. It is permissible for a copy of a pro forma agreement, for example of the type the debtor signs, to be sufficient. This should include details relevant to the alleged debt sufficient to identify it.

Failure to comply is not an offence, however we will make attempts to communicate further with the company via Surrey Trading Standards.

The matter of harassment will have to be considered on the Officer has seen sight of alll your correspondence and had the opportunity to obtain further evidence, this may take some time."""

Am I reading this wrong or does she say that they dont have to provide me with a signed copy of my agreement - just one like it????

Still nothing to report off all the others.

Weightmans - you could send them the following:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

THIS ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY IN DISPUTE

Ref: XXXXX

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER YOUR CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE.

On [enter date here], I sent a consumer credit act 1974 s77-79 request for a true copy of my credit agreement, with the prescribed payment.

I have still not received a copy of my credit agreement.

Please rectify this immediately, and send me information about your complaints procedure and the person, who is dealing with my account,

Yours Faithfully,

Print name, don't sign

Is the Cap 1 account your husbands? If it is then yes you can sign it as they would look pretty stupid if they copied the wrong signature over! I doubt they will have anything to check it against.

You have got rid of CrapQuest so that is one victory!! Chin up you are getting there

Ok. The letter above for Weightmans has already been sent. Their response was to issue me with the name of the person dealing with it. Do I just leave off the last paragraph and send it again? What am I complaining about - the fact they havent sent me what I asked for (sorry to sound so dim).

Littlewoods will be getting that letter first thing on Monday.

Can I sign the letter for Cap 1? My signature is nothing like my husbands. They have responded before to unsigned letters and this is the address he lives at. He is on the electoral roll - so whats their problem. What are they going to compare the signature with?? If they had the docs, surely they would just send it. Had confirmation today from CapQuest they are no longer dealing with it.

Wish it felt like I was making progress, sometimes it feels like I am wading through mud.! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Thanks.

For Weightmans when the 12 days are up you could send the following:

Dear Sir/Madam

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

THIS ACCOUNT IS CURRENTLY IN DISPUTE

Ref: XXXXX

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER YOUR CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE.

On [enter date here], I sent a consumer credit act 1974 s77-79 request for a true copy of my credit agreement, with the prescribed payment.

I have still not received a copy of my credit agreement.

Please rectify this immediately, and send me information about your complaints procedure and the person, who is dealing with my account,

Yours Faithfully,

Print name, don't sign

Might need a bit of amending seeing as you have the name of the person to complain to.

Cap 1 - agree don't send them a real signature. The easiest way is to print '----------x-----------' in a grey box where you would normally sign and then just sign in the box across the line. That way if they want to use it for anything else, it would be rather obvious where they had copied it from. Or sign your name differently and see if they accept it! What ever you do make sure you keep a copy of the letter including your signature so you can compare if required. If you google 'CAG debt request for signature sticky' there is a letter on there for when someone requests a signature.

Send Littlewoods a CCA, new version below:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

Yours faithfully

Print name, don’t sign

It looks like you are making progress, keep us informed

TA

Well, just when you thought it was safe:-

Weightmans (acting for Marbles C/C) - received letter today saying they have requested a copy of agreement from their client and have yet to receive it. Apologise for inconvenience. They have also given me the name of the person dealing with my account and any complaints can be directed to him. What letter do I send as I requested the information as per the complaint letter earlier on this thread.

Cap 1 - received another letter this morning. They are saying they would like to help me with my querry but as I did not sign my letter they cant. They are requesting I write to an address given including an example of my signature. I can alternatively call call one of their specialist account managers. They say they are sorry but they need it to protect the security of the account! Any advice please. I am obviously not going to provide any signature. They have never comented on it before, none of the letters have been signed.

Moorcroft (Littlewoods) They have returned my £1 Postal Order. They say they are unable to provide a copy of the signed Credit Agreement as they are no longer dealing with the account. They ask I forward all future queries to their client. Do I now send them the CCA or SAR?????????

Thanks - your a star!!!!!

PS forgot to say if you haven't already (and I can't remember if you are) you can stop all payments to the above. It usually focuses their mind when they are getting paid!!!

Don't be sorry its good to hear how you are getting on.

Goldfish - send them the letter above for Kays. T&C's are not an agreement they are T&C's (you have them on the ropes!)

Cap One - you are winning here, the DCA has realised that there is no enforceable agreement and dropped it like a hot potato. CCA Cap 1 and I am sure you will find they have nothing

The rest just sit back and see what happens

Strange isn't it, one day you dread the postman and then you get upset when they don't talk to you!!!!

Keep us informed

TA

Sorry to bring an old thread up again but I need some more help please.

Golfish have sent me a copy of the terms and conditions of my agreement but I cannot find a signature on it at all. They have enclosed statements from the last 12 months which show nothing. I sent the letter saying it isnt what I asked for and they sent a letter threatening me with court. I have made an official complaint and also sent a letter to my local Trading Standards Office.

Capital One have sent me a letter stating that my debt is no longer being managed by the DCA appointed. It demands full payment of £832.32. I dont need to request statements from these people as I already have them and cant see the point in paying again. Total spending on card £2170.47. Total payments made £2189.40. Cash advance fees charged £8.50. PPI added £130.54. Interest Charged £356.79. Late Payment Fees £216.00 and Overlimit Fees £136.00. Any advice on what I do now????????????????????????????????????

Littlewoods - Weightmans - Response Credit Management Nothing to report on these. No letters or anything. I sent letters saying they had not complied with my request - but still nothing. Can I send one every week or should I just sit tight???????????

Kays - absolutely zilch since I sent the letter earlier on this thread .

Thanks in anticipation of your help.

Excellent. Wish me luck - letters going out tomorrow. Will wait to see what they bring. I have still not had any response from Goldfish or the DCA acting on their behalf besodes the original one which said they were putting it on hold for 30 days whils requesting the information from their client.!!!!!!!

Thanks again.

Yes you just sit tight now and wait...if they demand payment send them the complaint letter

As for Kays send them this little beauty!

Dear Sir/Madam

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

Ref: [enter ref here]

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78, dated [enter letter date here].

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves.

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

On [enter date here] I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on [enter date of CCA request plus 12 working days]

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

This period has now lapsed.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

I WILL ONLY COMMUNICATE IN WRITING.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me, in writing, with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If you are unsure what this letter means you are urged to contact a qualified solicitior

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Print name, don't sign

In response to the CCA request on 9th Sept:-

Response Credit Management (Sky) - Still no agreement. Just letter saying they 'may use doorstep collection agency' 'may refer to solicitor'. Sending copy of your letter on previous post this weekend. Unsure of one to Trading Standards as I dont think 1 letter constitutes harasment. Will keep that on file, just incase I get another letter.

1st Credit (Goldfish) - account on hold for 30 days whilst they request the info from their clients.

Moorcroft (Littlewoods) - Account on hold whilst they contact their client. Wish to know what documents I will be using to contest any action. Same as Kays. Dont hold much hope. There may of been one once, but i supose the amalgamation of several catalogues at then end of last year could of put paid to that.

Weightmans (Marbles) - requesting info from client, they are not the creditor, mearly acting on their behalf, comunication between them and marbles subject to leagl privilage, contact them as a matter of urgency.

CapQuest (Cap 1) they have sent the application form filled in in 2004. It does say that it should only be signed if want to be legaly bound by the terms and conditions, but it is the application form. Going off the copy of a credit agrement Kays sent - it is nothing like that. I will send them the letter from previous post re it being an application form.

Do I now just sit tight and wait for them to locate the docs I have requested? What do I do with Kays, I cant obviously write to them and say its "game over" - much as that would give me great satisfaction. That made me laugh when I read it. Light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks again.

It isn't really a case of doing it the right way round and to be honest, the IQ levels at DCA's is so low they probably don't remember you having SAR'd them.

You don't have to send anything again.

What responses have you had to the CCA requests other than Kays?

On this site earlier this year ther was a big thing about claiming back bank charges. I applied to have the charges refunded on 2 of my bank accounts with the Halifax. Then came all details on how you can claim back charges on your credit cards and possibly PPI misselling as well. I issued letters to Goldfish, Marbles, Capital 1 and also solution finance. I enclosed a £10 postal order and duly received statements from 3. As I said previously, Goldfish have not bothered to send me anything. Early last month when my husband took a drop in his wage I went to CAB re the DCA's as I could not meet the payments I was making. Thats when I started to look on this site for help. I then found all the details on what I thought was SAR and I sent that letter off to all the DCA's chasing me. I enclosed a £1 postal order as stated.

I think it looks like I got them the wrong way round. I have no objection to paying these debts, but I just wanted them to meet me half way and refund the charges. I never asked for interest to be refunded.

Had they all agreed to refund charges added on to these cards and catalogues, they would of been settled a long time ago. I was getting weary of asking for information and justification of the charges. It was a one way street. I complied with all requests for payment or information but they would not help me in any way.

I even reported Solution Finance to the Solicitors Regulation Authority. That and the formal complaint to the DCA resulted in the debt being written off. It was purchased from Solution (probably for peanuts) by a DCA and I had paid 50% off.

So do I have to start all over again and pay again for the information I already have to get it in legal order? I dont think I am being unreasonable. Do you? Am I asking for the earth???

Thanks.

Right back to basics:

There are 2 strategies for dealing with debt cretin collectors (and original creditors)

1. Send of a CCA request and see if they have an enforcable agreement. If they don't then you don't pay anything and they can't do anything. The debt never goes away but they can't get you to pay unless you want to.

2. Send a SAR request - this is used when they have an enforcable agreement or if you know there are charges and want to claim them back (usually when the charges are more than the debt)

You can't claim back charges if they don't have a enforcable agreement as that's like saying 'the debt is nothing to do with me but can I have all the charges back for the debt that is mine!' It's one or the other

The letter in your last post is a CCA request so not sure how you got all the details of the charges?! Did you send a £1 postal order with each one? Did any of them reply saying they were looking for the agreement etc (except Kays)?

As for Kays, I am afraid it is game over..........for them!!! After the 12+2 days you can legally stop paying them anything. If they want you to pay they must provide the actual agreement you signed when the account was set up, a current version is meaningless! 1 down 5 to go!