Hi guys,

found this thread and just had to post reply about my dealings with 1st crudit, in a nutshell my wife and i both had good jobs, and we always lived reasonably within our means, we had a lot of credit but as we were earning well, we could afford the payments comfortably, then about 8 yrs ago my wife had an accident at work, she shattered two vertibra in her lower back which left her 75% disabled and unable to keep her full time job, so we went from 40k a year to 20k, a hugh drop, we could not get compensation as liability could not be proved. The point came when we realised we could not meet the minimum repayments on our debts, we went through various senarios with creditors, then two of the debts were passed to 1st credit, from the outset these people went for the jugular, they called up to 7 times a day, they were extreamly rude, we were threatened with court action, bankrupcy, having a charge put on the house, doorstep visits, you name it.We refused to talk to them on the phone and imformed them we would only comunicate with them by letter, but the responce was "please call to discuss this", this could of gone on for months so we changed our phone number, Bt do this for nothing, this was a few yrs ago, now you can opt for "choose to refuse" a service from Bt which barrs numbers you imput from calling you, the telephone is 1st credits weapon of choice, take that away from them and they become a lot less threatening, so dont be frightend by these people, they make lots of threats but rarley back it up with action, my advice is ask for a copy of your original credit agreement first, when they fail to produce it within the specified timeframe, which they will as they wont hold the original paperwork as they were not the original creditor, the account enters default which means they cant touch you until such time as they do produce the agreement, this will buy you some time to get your head together and decide your cource of action, i eventualy entered into an IVA to clear my debts, i am now into the second year of that, my wife had a couple of creditcard debts in her name which 1st credit are now chasing, they do not have our new phone number, they have our new address unfortunatly, but cant harrass her by phone at least, we asked for the copies of the agreements in nov 09, not arrived as yet, just a letter confirming account had now entered default and letter had been passed to original creditor, i refuse to pay those cretins anything simply because of the way they treated us, if they had been civil with us, then fair enough but because of there total lack of respect and curtosy i will use every trick in the book now to get out of paying them a penny, this is my payback for the way we were treated by them, i would not advise everyone to take this action as concequences could be severe if you are a homeowner, but we now rent, my wife has no income, my income and expenditure is governed by the court in respect of my IVA, so they cant realy touch us, i will help anyone with advice to get the better of this company as they are the scum of the earth and usually plunge the knife in when people are at there most vunruble all in the name of profit, and i believe that is wrong.

thanks.

Hiya Tartan Army

I sent a CCA request to Red Debt collection Agency (Lowell Portforlio) with the £1.00 fee (postal order which was returned) requesting statement, agreement etc - the debt was with HFC. I got the following response:

We refer to your request for a copy of your orginal credit agreement in accordance with the provisions of the section 77(1) and / or 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

This account from which the above amount is due relates to a bank account that you held with HFC BANK LTD.

While this account is a regulated agreement I would refer you to Section 74 (b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 whereby any requirement to supply a copy of the agreement is exempt for current bank accounts.

I have never had a bank account with HFC Bank so therefore have never held a current account.

I did purchase a washing machine on hire purchase through currys with HFC

Please advise what to do next?

Regards

Ebony

Hi Tartan Army ,

Thanks again for your speedy reply , it is very much appreciated I will let you know as soon a I have posted the letters on CAG & yes I will use the SC1111.

I will send off the letter today & the £10.00 chq to the original letter.

Kind Regards SC1111

Forgot to say, when you scan in the alleged agreement make sure you put white boxes over you name, address, account number as worst credit do read CAG!!!

You need to send a data subject access request to the original lender with a £10 postal order, using the following letter

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: XXXX

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal accounts, loan and credit card accounts.

Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organisation, INCLUDING accounts, loans, credit cards and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable.

I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organisation:

-Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my personal accounts, loan and credit card accounts with your organisation.

-Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

-Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIALTELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

Yours faithfully,

If Worst Crudit give you anymore hassle whilst you are waiting for the stuff back from the OC then just send them a short note saying you believe there are unlawful charges on this account and therefore you dispute the balance.

Yes of course I will have a look, just let me know when its up (and where it is, would suggest the Debt Collection forum) I assume you will use sc1111 as a username?

Hi Tartan Army ,

Thanks for your help & advice again it is very much appreciated , the original account was for a unsecured loan & I want to try to reclaim charges what letter do I need to send ? & do I need to send it to the original lender & 1st Credit ? I f I post a copy of what I have been sent on CAG would you have a look & let me know if it all seems ok?

Kind Regards SC1111

if its in dispute i wouldnt pay - get them to prove you owe that much first. you would be surprised now many companies add charges on top which are unfair.

Remember that worst crudit's whole business is based on a risk model. For each account they get, they score it on how likely it will be for them to make high profits. So if they send out one letter and you are straight on the phone begging for forgiveness then you will be scored as likely to pay and they will harrass you even more. If you stand up to their bullying tactics then your score slips as they are having to spend more time and money trying to get back there small outlay.

sc1111:

just to confirm yes I have now received a letter from original lender stating 1st Credit are now the legal owners

Have another look at this letter (assuming it has come recently) does it look suspiciously like worst crudit have sent it, same barcodes, same layout etc? Alot of people have had letter supossedly from the original lender when in fact worst crudit have just used their letter head and sent there own letter. Have you had a default notice from the original lender, does it conform with the prescribed layout and terms? Search CAG debt forums for what a default notice has to include and how it should be laid out.

sc1111:

I have checked what 1st Credit have sent me against the above & it all seems correct

Without seeing a copy of what they have sent, I can't really agree or disagree but If they have sent you a front page and then separate terms and conditions then the chances are it won't be enforcable. If this is what they have done then check the charges section to see if it is £12 for going over limit etc as this will clearly show that the T&C's are post 2007. Just some ideas. It would be better to scan a copy and post it on CAG to let everyone see it (minus personnal details) to either agree or disagree.

sc1111:

they have not sent me a statement of account as they have said I need to send an extra £10.00 for that ?

They are getting confused with a subject access request. The CCA 1974 clearly states what form a statement of account should take and they can't charge for it. It's their standard hogwash

sc1111:

Do you think I should try to reclaim any charges on the account ? Not sure if I can take this sort of action ?

Can't remember what kind of account this was, credit card? If there are charges on the account then yes you should start a claim against the original creditor as this would put the account in dispute so worst crudit couldn't do anything until that is resolved and it would help bring down the balance. This is particularly prudent where they appear to have an enforcable agreement.

sc1111:

I have offered my normal monthly payment to 1st Credit as I had an aggreement with original lender but they just write & ask for me to phone the number to discuss the account ?

I have sent a letter stating I wish all correspondence to be in writing but they just send the same letter for me to contact by phone ! I have no intention of phoning ,as I was made to feel like a criminal when I have spoke to them on the phone.

Should I just send the monthly payments that I had agreed with origianal lender ?

To pay or not to pay, that is the question and one only you can answer. If the account is in dispute then you are legally entitled to with hold payment until the dispute is resolved.

Hope this helps

Hi Tartan Army

Thanks for your reply just to confirm yes I have now received a letter from original lender stating 1st Credit are now the legal owners, I have checked what 1st Credit have sent me against the above & it all seems correct & yes the letter 1st Credit has sent does say for me to confirm signature or to contact them if they think I have been a victim of fraud ! No they have not sent me a statement of account as they have said I need to send an extra £10.00 for that ?

Do you think I should try to reclaim any charges on the account ? Not sure if I can take this sort of action ?

I have offered my normal monthly payment to 1st Credit as I had an aggreement with original lender but they just write & ask for me to phone the number to discuss the account ?

I have sent a letter stating I wish all correspondence to be in writing but they just send the same letter for me to contact by phone ! I have no intention of phoning ,as I was made to feel like a criminal when I have spoke to them on the phone.

Should I just send the monthly payments that I had agreed with origianal lender ?

Kind Regards SC1111

By definition, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requires them to provide a true copy of your agreement, although they can omit certain things like signature boxes and signatures. I suspect you have been sent a letter saying that it is an edited version of your agreement and if you send them a signature then they will send you the complete document or help the police if you believe fraud has taken place?

Can't remember what the alleged debt was for? But any agreement needs certain things on it to make it enforcable. By merely sending an agreement doesn't make it enforcable.

Taken from CAG:

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)
PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Pescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
--------------------------

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.
Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date

Check your agreement against the above and see if anything is missing, check to see if you allegedly signed before the creditor

DO NOT send anything back to them with your signature on or even acknowledge there letter.

Have they sent you a notice of assignment from them and the original creditor? Have they sent you a statement of account?

Let me know and we will take it from there

Hi I have had a reply today from my CCA that I sent to 1st Credit it seems like a photocopy of the original agreement that I signed ( it is my signature ) 1st credit have also said once I have agreed it is my signature & provided them with a copy of my signature( driving licence etc ) they will provide me with original copies ? they have also asked for me to phone them as a matter of urgency to settle the outstanding debt unsure of what I should do now ? any advice would be appreciated.

Always recorded signed for, never sign, keep everything in a file including copies of every letter sent.

good call,i like your style,i will print it out and its as good as in the post to them

but recorded or 1st class

Like they remember what they have sent!!!!

You are still waiting for your information so get it in the post and see what they say!

hi Tartan Army

thx for the reply and i will send off that letter,but funnily enough this morning their letter of complaints procedure arrived in the post,does this matter as i am requesting it in the above letter,if you wish to see it i can type you it out in a reply

cheers T