It was not a new policy as such, we already had the policy, we just sold the previous car as our son decided that we were all fed up having a n old car that cost money to repair, where as getting a newer car ,would solve this, so I rang to change details of car and remove myself from the policy as I did not want to drive in general and it was a waste for me to be on it. I was not asked a seperate question who is owner? who is keeper? and didnt even cross my mind that there would be a problem as our son resides at our address and matches the policy holder address and also named driver on policy, it is so confusing. But honestly , all we got from CIS was Claime refused as reg keeper not policy holder, nothing more elaborated on, no offer of us defending ourselves, just returned all the paperwork and keys to the car. So having nothing to lose, we decided to take advice from the free legal number that was provided with our policy cover. We are awaiting now for CIS to reveiw the report. No doubt they will find something else

It is all one of the same thing to be honest.  Anyone can be the registered keeper but when you take out insurance you will be asked a. who owns the vehicle and b. who is the registered keeper.  Now if these are both the same as the policyholder then the insurer has no concern.  In your case the policyholder is neither the "owner" or registered keeper of the vehicle.  On a new policy these are material facts (there is no other definition, they are material information required by the insurer) so when you are asked by the insurer to provide details of any change to a material fact then you must inform them if ownership/registered keeper has changed.

Look at it this way, if you had of told them when it changed they would of adjusted the premium or declined to cover.  Therefore when a claim is made and they find out something is wrong on the policy they will take this action.

If you had the v5 in the policyholders name then I would expect the claims handler to pick up on the fact that the finance is in your sons name and therefore something is wrong and would lead to the same conclusion.

If the insurer has refused the claim on that one basis then they are just lazy!  They should detail why they believe the policy is not setup correctly and show how they can prove this.

All in all I do empathise with your position but in a roundabout way the insurer is correct

 

The insurers have not refused the claim on owner details as when I read the letter from them to us, to the legal representative, He confirmed that they were refusing on reg keeper not being the policy holder. And as anyone can be a reg keeper, even a non driver or not even on the policy, it could be said that it is not a material fact and in no ways contributes to fraud . If the v5 was in my the policy holders the claim would not be rejected. But where does it state that HE does have to be both, when clearly from feedback from this site and others, that is not the case. It is in their hands now, but will keep you updated. Thanks.

Hello, you are completly right with regards to the finance company legally owning the vehicle.  How an insurance company view this is, who have the finance company loaned the money for the vehicle to?  This case it is your son therefore in the insurance companies view your son is the "owner" and main user of the vehicle therefore it should be insured in his name.  I am concerned that your legal advise is saying this issue is not a material fact!  The ownership of the vehicle is one of the main issues of taking out insurance so how is it a. not material and b. not a fact? 

From your comments I would take the view (in the absence of an investigators report) that you were clearly misinformed when taking the policy out and when making amendments.  The FSA view on this issue is that as the misrepresentation is not deliberate (ie you did not do this because you knew the insurance would be too expensive) that the insurer should deal with the claim but take into account the correct premium for insuring the vehicle correctly.

They therefore could a. pay the proportion of the claim on a percentage that it was underinsured or b. deduct the outstanding premium from the settlement of the claim.  The only issue here is if the cost of the premium is more than the value of the vehicle.  Then they would decline the claim anyway or if they would of not insured your son in the first place again they would not be obliged to pay.

I would be very wary of legal advise from the cover on your insurance as at the end of the day they could be dealing with a conflict of interest as they are appointed by the insurer.  From my experiance they never liked to get involved in these issues and if anything they sound like they do not have a real understanding of how an insurance policy works!  But hey if they get you a result then it is worth trying?

Hope this helps

Just to update you, although the finance is indeed in our sons name, we have been told that he does not officially by law OWN the vehicle untill the last payment made! BUt netherless, the CIS have refused CLAIM, AS REGISTERED KEEPER IS NOT THE POLICY HOLDER , IE POLICY HOLDER MY HUSBAND and named driver and keeper our son. We have never been advised to not to have named driver on policy as we have had our son on for 3 years now.But as we have just been told the keeper has been put down as (mrs) me. Anyway after using the free lagal service linked to our policy, the lawyer has stated that we should write to the broker first, as this is not  a material fact and it is a technical issue. So on that basis sent relevant complaint to m&s, they have already spoken to CIS by phone, but we do not the content of this. Today we received a letter from CIS to say they are reveiwing the report from their appointed assessors who refused the claim. So it is obviously going to be drawn out. We took it to be anyone can be a reg keeper, and not necessary on the policy , but the lawyer seems to think as this was perhaps just an over sight or naievity on my part when changing all the details over from our last car to this policy, that as our son lives at this address where the policy holder is , he is hopefull at least for agreement to be made. keep you informed and thanks for advice.

I think you need to establish a few facts. Who is the legal owner of the vehicle ie who paid for it and it's upkeep?  This is the basis of insurance (insurable interest) ie only the legal owner can insure the vehicle.

From the sound of it your son shows legal ownership by having the finance in his name.  He is responsible for the vehicle and therefore it should be in his name.  Insurer only really pick up on things like this when a claim is made.  A big clue is who is the registered keeper of the vehicle.  Again this is not legal ownership but goes someway to show who is.  Why would your son have his dad's vehicle registered in his name? He wouldn't unless it was considered the son's vehicle.

I think your insurer is correct in saying the risk was misrepresented to them.  What is unclear here is have you been misadvised by your broker? (M&S).

I would refer the matter to them, explain you were misinformed when changes happened on the policy and they should look to cover the loss themselves.  Your insurer may look at this as a mistake on the brokers behalf and consider your claim but this is very unlikely.

 The one thing I will say is the insurer should not just decline the claim on the basis of receiving vehicle documents in your sons name.  This as i said previously is an indication that something is wrong on the policy and they should be looking to appoint a loss adjustor to discuss the claim with yourselves by taking statements from those concerned before making a decision.  If they have not done this then they stand of very dodgy ground.

On the note of the insurance being invalide the whole time, this is not the case.  Depending on the circumstances of any incident occuring during the insurance period (ie a third party injury) then the insurer will more than likely have to stand as RTA Insurer providing third party only cover so as not to prejudice the innocent third party.

I know this all sounds very complicated but if you create a timeline of what happened and when during the course of the car life with yourselves it becomes a lot clearer what should of happended and when.

Again if you need any help let me know

Thank you, can I add, that I (MRS) was on the previous policy for an old car , my husband was policy holder, I was named also our son, I happened to have the V5 in my name for that one, When our son financed , I did not want to drive this vechicle and phoned M&S to inform them we did no longer have the old vehicle, and that we wanted to just change details of car and also remove me from the policy, i had no wish to drive at that time. We received no transfer cost, just a small increase in the direct debit, which comes from our joint account. The keeper is our son aswell as the finance in his name, the finance company stated that V5 had to be put in his name.But that insurance was not a problem.What I cannot remember is or what was asked when changing details, I have looked at the policy booklet and site, it appears that you have to inform them on these issues. Drivers details who are on the policy, but does make it clearer than that, it does not state, keeper/ owner details.When I took myself off the old policy, should it have been made to my attention that policy holder should be same as keeper?. We did not think that it mattered so much as keeper , is for dvla purpose to locate where the vehicle is kept. There letter reads, It is utmost good faith policy you did not provide a material fact. Void claim from 17th March (theft ) in respect you the policy holder are not the registered keeper.  But we have had previous car with them where My husband was not both, so does that mean we were nevr insured which is ludricous. What actual difference does it make , we reside at the same address and were up to date with all comp payments.It was never discussed whilst changing these details over a year ago, that unless both the same policy is unable to be purchased. Is there away forward, from this, I do actually think they are being unfair,and do not hold out much hope of them reversing their decision unless M&S can report back to me and throw light onto this, I cannot see how an agent could continue processing the policy after removing me, as It would still mean that the policy holder  my husband was not named keeper?so why still keep me on as keeper if they state that they are refusing our claim on that basis now. Thanks

Hello, I am a former fraud manager of an insurance company that dealt with stolen vehicles.

Insurance is a contract of upmost good faith therefore you should be asked questions as to who is the owner and main user of the vehicle being insured.  Any change in these circumstances are considered "materal facts" and should be disclosed. You need to check your policy to see when you need to advise your insurer of the change. 

The insurer should of "investigated" the claim before making any decesion as the vehicle registration document is a record of the "registered keeper" and not who legally owns the vehicle.  In these cases the insurer has a few options

1. Decline the claim on the basis of non disclosure/misrepresentation

2. Pay the claim but deduct the remainder of the additional premium to insure the vehice correctly

3. Decline the claim if the would of not offered insurance on the correct basis

4. Pay a proportion of the claim on the basis of the percentage the vehicle is "under insured"

5. Accept that the misrepresentation has no "material" effect on the claim and deal accordingly.

You need to get in writing the reason the claim was declined and then follow the companies complaints procedure before approaching the FSA.  If you need any more info then let me know.  This is just a brief bit of advise.

In march 07 had car stolen, unrecovered stolen as police report states. Received crime number , informed M&S our broker for using CIS. Sent them all completed forms, sets of keys, copies of both drivers licences.Have finally  after 2 months received it all back saying claim void due to, POLICY HOLDER NOT KEEPER. My husband is main driver with our son as named driver on fully comp cover. The V5 is our sons, as we reside all at the same address and V5 is for the dvla to have confirmation of where the vehicle is kept, we did not realise we were in breach of policy. It appears that M&S who will are responding to our query next week, have Mysellf as (MRS) KEEPER. This is the case on our last car policy, when we updated to this car I phoned over the details of the new car and simply kept this policy open with a small increase in monthly direct debit. We have had this a year now, even longer if you count on our previous car with the  same broker and company CIS. I took myself off the last policy due to knowing i would not drive this new car, so it just left my husband as main driver with son named, I was not informed that insurance would be void if policy holder did not match keeper, We did not know until now that I was still down as keeper for this vehicle on this policy. Being over a year old this policy it is a shock to know that in that case the insurance must have been void all the time! Does anyone have any advice, we are writing to both M&S and CIS later this week with a formal complant, and the FSA stated that only after 8 weeks in which the companies have to reply with their verdict, can we ask them for a investigation.