Jalexa:

Mynewt:

Again to correct Jalexa the calculation is Usage in cubic feet x 2.83

Are you quibbling with my 2.73 instead of 2.83? That was a Sunday answer.

Anyway you say "cubic feet" when you should say "100s of cubic feet".

Now if I've got my timing right that should be there for a couple of hours.

I understand its a very small point Jalexa, however it is an important one - especially considering the potential for it to be quoted and used in communication with a supplier. You have built up an extremely good reputation and many people rightfully read and take note of what you advise. I'm simply trying to save a little inconveniance and perhaps a little embarrasment, as you said its a minor thing.

RINSO84:

This then hammers home the point that we should all regularly check our meter.

You are absolutely right about that, though this was billing problem more than a meter reading problem. I presume it arose following the meter change.

It's a serious precedural error, between Transco and EDF. Probably EDF. You should insist on a Distress & Inconvenience payment. Possibly, as Mynewt hints, you might get off paying for energy consumed more than 12 months prior. Check the Code of Practice for Accurate Bills (and the FAQ) which I linked earlier.

Mynewt:

Again to correct Jalexa the calculation is Usage in cubic feet x 2.83

Are you quibbling with my 2.73 instead of 2.83? That was a Sunday answer.

Anyway you say "cubic feet" when you should say "100s of cubic feet".

Now if I've got my timing right that should be there for a couple of hours.

Further to my post regarding high gas account I phoned EDF today and yes account will be amended down because I have a metric meter and they charged as a imperial meter (the unit is multiplied by approx 11 for metric and 32 for imperial).

The call did start off I must have used it etc………………….

EDF stated that by law they only have to read meters every two years.

EDF said another department will look at and sort and they kindly postoned the increased direct debit of £150 per month!

This then hammers home the point that we should all regularly check our meter.

Many thanks for all the posts, they were of great assistance.

By the way, use the correct multiplier I recalculated the gas used per day units averaged over year 2.368613 and this equates a monthly direct debit about £30.

Thanks to all again.

Just to make sure how many dials (or numbers) does you gas meter have?

If it has 4 dials for measuring consumption (this is whole units consumed only) then it's an imperial meter, if it has 5 then it's metric. (the meter itself will also state what units its recording in).

Again to correct Jalexa the calculation is Usage in cubic feet x 2.83 x1.02264 x Calorific Value ALL DIVIDED by 3.6. (if its recording in cubic meters do excactly the same thing EXCEPT remove the x 2.83 step).

If it has been mis-recorded it looks very likely you will have a deduction due to a metering error and are likely to not be required to pay for any consumption over a year old. (you will also be entitled to spread any repayment over a period equal to that which the problem has occured for.)

RINSO84:

I note the comment about converting M³ to kwh and under is a direct quote from the EDF accounts, the circa is 32,

In that case EDF have made the metric imperial error. Credits to Twee for first mentioning it.

Have a look at this and identify your meter type.

http://www.edfenergy.com/products-services/for-your-home/my-account/how-to-read-your-gas-meter.shtml

The main thing to note is that imperial meters have 4 black digits, a red moving digit which is NOT read and a fixed zero. They read 100s of cu ft. A metric meter has 5 black digits before the point. Any digits after the point are not read. The metric meter reads cu m.

An imperial reading of 100s of cu ft can be approx converted to cu m by *2.73. Then cu m (as I previously stated) approx to kWhrs by *11

Thanks for the detailed info. Too much for a Sunday evening, might find time tomorrow. Its a good idea always to quote the whole reading including leading zeros. It helps to avoid confusion between meter types.

However now that you know the problem you can look at your accounts again and challenge EDF if necessary.

Thanks for information. Regarding points.

I note the comment about converting M³ to kwh and under is a direct quote from the EDF accounts, the circa is 32, and EDF state kwh. Thus my only calculation is the factor.

I have entered the EDF figures intro a new spreadsheet and the figures change a but, but the concern is still there.

I have only three accounts.

From last EDF account, all quote from EDF account

Previous meter reading 189E 17 August 2009

Latest 710A 22 October 2009

No units = 521 Units

Kwh 16,669 kwh

Thus kwh / units factor is 31.99424

From second EDF account, all quote from EDF account

Previous meter reading 166E 19 May 2009

Latest 189E 17 August 2009

No units = 23 Units

Kwh 734 kwh

Thus kwh / units factor is 31.91304

From first EDF account, all quote from EDF account

Previous meter reading 61E 21 January 2009

Latest 166E 14 February 2009

No units = 105 Units

Kwh 3,356 kwh

Thus kwh / units factor is 31.9619

And using first and last EDF accounts

Previous meter reading 61E 21 January 2009

Latest 710A 22 October 2009

No units = 649 Units

Kwh 20,759 kwh

Thus kwh / units factor is 31.98613

Using the above that is for 270 days and by proportion a year would equate to 28,063 kwh and per day 77 kwh and 2.4 units a day.

The meter is an Elster metering Ltd BK-G4 s/n G4 K900 8603 08 01

Start of 7 days test

19/11/09 769

20/11/09 770

21/11/09 774

22/11/09 776

23/11/09

24/11/09

25/11/09

26/11/09

Using these initial tests they are averaging 2.33 units per day.

Test with boiler and hob both turned off, result no gas used.

If i owe money so be it, but the rdaings do not stack up.

Twee:

10,000 kW / year is still an incredibly high amount for a 2 bedroomed flat

Some people like yourself are commendably successful at keeping consumption low, but the Consumer Focus (I think) standard for "low" consumption is 10,000 kWhrs gas and 1650 kWhrs electricity.

So unless a 2 bed flat user was actively driving down gas consumption by significantly limiting heating by time or by temperature, 10,000 kWhrs is potentially realistic.

10,000 kW / year is still an incredibly high amount for a 2 bedroomed flat

That means 27kW per day - which (for gas alone) is way too high

RINSO84:

I have looked and the gas accounts and this year, 708m³ gas used in 270 days this I make to be 22,651kwh.

In my earlier post I alluded to inaccurate calculation according to the type of meter. Twee mentioned a well known problem.

The calculation you quote is wrong. The rule of thumb calculation is kWhr = cu m * 11, so about 10,000 kWhrs per year. A fairly generous amount for a well insulated 2 bed flat but by no means excessive.

Except by Twee's frugal standards.

I must say 88kWh per day is worryingly excessive - could this be one of those meters mentioned on Watchdog last year that is read incorrectly (Cu M rather than Cu feet - or is that vice versa) and the meter reader doesn't take into account ?

We use about 12kWh per day gas (averaged over 12 months) in a 3 bed semi !!

RINSO84:

Has anybody any idea what the regulations say about maximum time between readings?

Well there is a legal max but that is a regulatory issue, not a customer issue. For you the issue is not the reading frequency but the billing frequency. You refer to "examining the accounts" so I assume you have been receiving regular (quarterly?) bills or statements.

If you did and you did not take the opportunity to update estimated readings with actual customer readings you have very little customer recourse except trying to negotiate on the catch-up payment. That said Google for the "Code of Practice for Accurate Bills". While EDF might not have fully complied with the reading frequency and accuracy of estimates requirements, the fact that you were billed regularly (and accepted estimated readings) significantly reduces your rights under the Code.

It may make you feel better that the meter is extremely unlikely to to faulty though EDF are wrong to state "the meter is not faulty" without a test. They are right that you would have to pay if you insist on a test and it proved not to be faulty.

Anyway £15 (or was it £25?) and I'm confused by post, is quite low for gas central heating and cooking. Not really surprised that an account debit balance built up.

The meter exchange reading would have been an actual reading. Is that the one you refer to? Since you only have one actual reading the "annual" usage figures you quote will not be accurate. They are certainly high for most 2 bed flats. Meter exchanges are potentially difficult to calculate but there is a formal system which should have been followed.

While there are some reasons meters can be accurate but bills can be calculated innacurately, I cannot say from your post but the clue would be in the type of meter you have.

Post your 7 day daily readings and the readings from the bill which had the meter exchange calculations and it may be possible to tell.

I have object about the notice and queried a faulty gas meter. EDF said meter was not faulty, would cost to have it checked (if proved not faulty) and money due was for used gas.

On examining the accounts since taking our gas from EDF the only actual meter was the last.

Has anybody any idea what the regulations say about maximum time between readings?

I have checked and cannot see any “neighbours” connected to my gas pipe.

I am taking Dailey readings for 7 days.

We live in a two bedroom flat with a 4 year old condensing boiler, gas hob and the flat has cavity foam insulation and attic is insulated. We moved in 2003 and our gas direct debit has always been around £25ish. We had a new meter fitted end of last year.

I have looked and the gas accounts and this year, 708m³ gas used in 270 days this I make to be 22,651kwh.

And, this for a year is 30,622 kwh, and per day 88 kwh!

Has any body any thoughts regarding:

Has anybody any idea what the regulations say about maximum time between readings?

What the average daily use is?

Have I a faulty meter?