Wow ... another great post PRB.

My own experience is similar to most. Initially managing the credit well within income. But I found over the years my payments required to keep up skyrocketted from £300 / month to well over £600 / month. Out of my salary that was unsustainable.

Unfortunately I didn't find this forum (and other similar) until after I had wiped out £5000 savings and £15,000 of sold off insurance policies.

My only alternative would be bankruptcy and possible loss of my family's home. No way am I going lying down. Like a rat in a corner I WILL fight to the end.

PRBrown,

I would be interested to know what you think is a reasonable 'exposure' to credit? I personally believe that if your unsecured debt is more than one earns in a year, it's already out of control.

What do you think? Am I being unreasonable?

Mynewt:

I agree (somewhat) if its the changes in interest that are causing an issue, but to me the OP just didn't come across as being one of these cases, granted that just maybe the way I interpretted it.

You are correct. They said they had been swindled over a 0% interest rate which is reason enough to want to pursue the line of enforceability.

Mynewt:

That said, you know when you take out a credit agreement such as this that the interest charges are liable to fluctuate.

Why do I have a feeling that I know what's going to come next?

Mynewt:

How many people complained or would complain if the rates fell?

Understandably, you may not have expected an increase as large as this, but you should have at least prepared for it. I mean its common sense, prepare for the worst and expect the best - so that if your expectations aren't met at least your prepared for it.

Bingo!!

This thread isn't about me and I don't want to kidnap it but I will make some general points.

I've held CC's for over 25 years so I have some experience of them. I've never been aware of a credit card rate falling any more than a couple of percentage points irrespective of the starting interest rate. No-one will complain about rates falling, but when interest rates are so low and the IBLR (the rate banks lend to each other at) is not much higher, I can't see any justification in increasing rates - even by a couple of points. The only conclusion can be greed, indifference, and the fact that they can because the "contract" allows them to. If our only defence against this is to question the efficacy of the contract, then that's the way it has to be.

There will be exceptions with people whose payment history is not good or people who have had debt problems in the past, but when you have a perfect record of paying off all loans and mortgages, and you've never missed a payment - ever - on any loan or credit card owned, then what is the justification for huge increases in percentage charges when the credit risk hasn't changed.

Mynewt:

I seem to remember reading somewhere on here, that people were able to get the interest frozen on their accounts (along with their spending privaleges) on their cards to help repay the debt. Have you investigated this possibility?

I'm assuming you've never dealt with a CC company and tried to get your interest rates reduced or frozen before? All they want is your money. They're not really interested in helping as most of the threads in this forum attest to.

Mynewt:

And for the record, i'm one of those lower-income earner's. I know this, which is why I take personal responsibility for my spending and why I get so angry when people don't take the same repsonsibility, exploit loopholes and in the end, add to the increases I have to endure.

Good for you. I too take personal responsibility for my spending and borrowing and have never borrowed more than I could afford, but when I'm managing nicely, reducing my balance, and people start to ask for an additional 18,000 a year in interest payments, no amount of "planning ahead" would have forseen such a massive increase in payments or such an increase in interest rates at a time when interest rates are at their lowest ever.The fact that I've managed to pay an additional £1500 per month shows that my borrowing was well within my "affordability" limits. Now I fear I'm getting near that end of the "spare monthly cash" if rates keep increasing.

Even so, that isn't the point. This forum is about people looking for help in fighting unfair practices or dealing with debt problems. It's not about you venting some spleen and feeling morally superior because you've managed your income/outgoings better than someone else and you're annoyed that they are "getting away with it" or "looking for loopholes".

If you don't want to contribute to helping people that's fine, but I find it distasteful that you should come on here questioning the behaviour or people just because you feel they are getting away with something that you don't agree with. You only have to read through these forum to understand that most people are simply looking for help. Very few posts are about "getting rid of the debt". I've lost count the number of posts saying "I want to pay off my debts...". People are being pushed to the edge for all sorts of reasons - most of them outwith their control - and many of them have found an unsympathetic ear when they approach their creditors with a genuine want to pay them off. I salute those who are fighting back, and I'm gobsmacked at all the people who are helping by providing expertise, comfort, and their own personal time to help out strangers. If you don't agree with what is happening here, don't read the posts, but don't you dare come over all morally superior just because you aren't in that position and don't like people who, I quote, "don't take responsibility", "exploit loopholes". Most of them aren't, it's the behaviour of the CCC and banks that you should be questioning.

Redforever Goodluck with your claim.

If the creditor has not complied with the consumer credit act 1974, something they agreed to do when you signed the credit agreement, the act clearly states in certain circumstances the debt is not recoverable, the law is the law.

also sign this great relevant petiton if you get a moment. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/CreditRA/

I agree (somewhat) if its the changes in interest that are causing an issue, but to me the OP just didn't come across as being one of these cases, granted that just maybe the way I interpretted it. That said, you know when you take out a credit agreement such as this that the interest charges are liable to fluctuate. How many people complained or would complain if the rates fell?

Understandably, you may not have expected an increase as large as this, but you should have at least prepared for it. I mean its common sense, prepare for the worst and expect the best - so that if your expectations aren't met at least your prepared for it.

I seem to remember reading somewhere on here, that people were able to get the interest frozen on their accounts (along with their spending privaleges) on their cards to help repay the debt. Have you investigated this possibility?

And for the record, i'm one of those lower-income earner's. I know this, which is why I take personal responsibility for my spending and why I get so angry when people don't take the same repsonsibility, exploit loopholes and in the end, add to the increases I have to endure.

I certainly don't think it is unreasonable to correct the oft' made assumption that going down the CCA route will somehow 'write off' the debt - it merely makes it non-collectable through Court action.

The debt doesn't go away, and the credit file will show this, which means that sensible APR credit will be unattainable for years after.

It is something to consider, and always (in my opinion) worth pointing out. It's not about questioning morals or reasons, it's about full disclosure of the consequences.

Nice first post (and thanks for the mention in dispatches !!).

The major point with which I sympathise is the unmanageable increases in interest we now all face - as you point out getting on for 5 fold increases in some cases (all when bank interest rates are rock bottom). It is this that have pushed people into debt, not irresponsible borrowing. How callous is it to lend someone £500 (to use an example mentioned earlier) with at first a promise of wanting back £550 and then tell you, 'sorry we now want back £675' !!

It is easy for those who have decent incomes, small or no debts or are managing modest repayments to critise others who are drowning in debt repayments and are desperate to find a way out and restart their lives. Make no mistake the pressures on families struggling to live whilst repaying 'money lender' interest rates is crippling.

Add to that the callous way the banks have and continue to behave it is no wonder the little people want to get their own back. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all run up inconceivable debts and ask our neighbours to bail us out whilst still collecting our nice fat salary, plus of course a big fat bonus on top!!!

Again - nice to see a sympathetic post in favour of the life belt approach not concrete slippers!

While I'd hate my first post to be seen as picking a fight with more established members, I do find some of the responses here a little unsympathetic. I'm sure that some people are looking for loopholes to get out of paying debts and that proportion of them are hoping to get their debts wiped out, but surely the point of these forums is to provide help when needed and not to moralize.

People can be forced into seemingly unmanageable debt problems through all sorts of reasons and circumstances. Would it have been better not to get into debt in the first place? Probably, but not many people can live without some form of credit and sometimes life overtakes all the plans you had made.

I was brought to these forums by a debt problem that I could seem looming on the horizon for me. I've have several credit cards - most of them for at least 7 years - and was managing their payments nicely. Over the last 18 months, despite never (not once) missing a payment or being late with a payment, and always paying at least the minimum amount (usually more), the interest rates on my cards has started to increase massively. I was paying a comfortable £1100 a month to my cards and that was reducing the balance. Now it has become a struggle to find at least £2600 per month just to cover the minimum payments and pay a little extra towards the balance. I haven't used the card or increased their balance any more than they were before, it's just that the Credit Card companies keep increasing the interest rate - one of them has gone from 7.9% to 34.9% over the last year (thanks Richard Branson). I've tried to get a reduction in interest rates but all of them, except Barclaycard, have refused to shift their position. I feel I'm being forced down the route of making them prove an enforecable agreement just to get some breathing room and some negotiating power with them over interest rates. Like most people I want to pay off my debts, but the behaviour of these companies and their loan-shark like interest rates, are pushing me towards having to go down this route. I know I risk my perfect Credit Score, but I don't see many other choices being left open for me.

So, lets give people a break. I came to these forums and was impressed by the selfless help being given by basa48, stubie-one, and commandkiller, among others (sorry if I haven't mentioned you). It might be right to tell people the debt won't go away, and these forums make it clear that entering into a battle with a CC company is not pleasant and certainly not something that should be taken lightly, but I sincerely believe that the purpose of these forums should be to help people out and not question their morals or reasons for wanting to fight the unfair practices and bully-boy tactics that we read about every day.

Go for it redforever and best of luck to you!

I agree 100% with the above post.

What the banks sometimes do though is, after 6 months and one day, say "we want £600 now". My opinion is that anything that hasn't been clearly agreed should not be paid (i.e. unreasonable charges and penalties) but the rest should be paid up as agreed.

While i'm certainly no expert in these matters this whole affair seems to me at least as nothing less than someone looking for a loophole.

Chaning the circumstances for a second - you lend your mate charlie £500.00. and he agree's to apy you back in 6 months time. 6 month's comes around and charlie says "I'm not paying because we didn't shake on it".

Would you be happy lossing £500.00 over a mere technicality or would you expect him to pay you back? There is really little difference between this, and the agreement i'm sure you know you signed.

This "swindle" is, i'm almost certain, you not entirely understanding the situation, and feeling agreived when the truth dawns on you. Your looking for someone else to blame, and your looking for your pound of flesh - both very natural reactions, just not very sensible ones.

The truth is, you borrowed money, you need to pay it back. Because if you don't many more people will be. The banks don't just roll over - oh well we lost XXXXX there. They'll just add the losses onto their charges for all their other customers who even now are paying a lot more, due to these type of events. (admittedly there are also a lot of other causes for this increase as well, but we don't need to be adding to the problem).

Skywalker,

It is not my intention to try and get out of paying my debts, far from it.

I have had major hassle from credit cards companies recently that have made a fortune out of me for a great many number of years. Now when things are a bit tight they want to hang me out to dry. I realise that there is no magic way of getting rid of debts and would not wish to do so, but I think that giving them a few punches back is not unfair !

However you point is valid in that it seems that too many people DO think they can send a couple of letters and get out of alot of debt. This is not the case in this instance though, I have my own reasons for my actions.

redforever;

You decided to try to get out of paying back the debt you owe to Halifax via the CCA route, and then you decided that Lloyds TSB also don't deserve to be paid back the money that you took and spent, because they somehow 'swindled' you.

Do you imagine for a second that finding a way not to pay, means that the debt will just go away because it might become unenforceable to collect through the Courts - and that will somehow enable you to then get further credit?

I agree with Stubie.

From this point on it is not the CCCs compliance (or not) with s.78 that is crucial, it is whether any documents they've sent (or could send in the future) comply with s.60 / s.61 of the Act, i.e. is it a properly executed agreement which would be enforceable by a court.

Hi All,

Whilst I cannot entirely disagree with ther replys to date, the fact is that the response from Lloyds TSB is, at best, economical with the truth.

If you get hold of the relevent legislation, particularly the 1983 regs, you will see that crucial passages of the regulations have been omitted in order to make the response appear to be legal and legitimate.

You may want to quote back the "missing" parts of the regulations and ask them to comply with the full intent on the legislation and amendments.

S

debtfreesoon:

Once you withhold payment they give you a default which means future credit to you at bonus creating rates.

Yes. It's only in cloud cuckoo land that, when you stop repaying one debt, you find lots of other people wanting to lend to you.