Hi Bubs

Yep - I personally think a s.78 on its own is a waste of time, you should do the SAR at the same time. The SAR's I have done have produced agreements from Sharkleys, HSBC, Halifax and Crap1. When I S.78'd them they simply sent t & c's. Even a SAR won't guarantee an agreement but its definitely better tha just a S.78.

I have a history of mental health problems, all well documented. A couple of weeks back I wrote to them all and told them. It might just be the Christmas lull but Halifax and Sharkleys do seem to have stopped calling at the moment. If you haven't already done so, why not make an appointment with your GP and tell him / her about whats happening / how low its all making you and get something documented medically - then hit the shisters with a letter along the lines of what I did.

I'm not 100% sure about Payplan and CCCS. The situation is made less clear because as well as seeking to make an arrangement you are also looking at unenforceability - which is ultimately about paying them nothing or just a token amount. CCCS for example, receive a 'commission' (they don't call it that but thats what it is) of 11% of whatever you end up paying your creditors through your DMP. I'm not sure what they would advise. For me I try nd get an appointment with CAB, they are truly independent, even if you have to wait a month or more.

Bubs

Send to BC:

In my letter of ************ regarding the above disputed account, I specifically requested communication in writing only and again verbally by phone I have requested that the phone calls stop, but I am still receiving calls.

The quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company and agencies you employ I now deem to be personally harassing.

I repeat I now require all further correspondence from your company any agencies you employ to be made in writing only.

I am of the view that continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and the OFT, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company and associated agencies will be recorded.

Bubs

This is thread containing a comprehensive letter requesting SAR details.

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/community/forums/t/sar-template-36954.aspx

In regard to CAB advising people to contact Payplan, this only comes from a couple of posts from people where this has happened. If you feel that the Payplan forms are a bit too onerous, keep trying CAB and arrange an appointment.

Huckster

Hi Brooooooooooce

When you say get hold of a proper copy of the original agreement, do you mean I should do a SAR? (As I said previously all copies I have obtained so far are on here via photobucket). Sorry to be a pain but can you point me in the direction of a link to a template letter requesting the same, if you get a minute, if not I'll do a search.

Huckster seems to think I should really get professional advice and perhaps I should go back to Payplan as apparently he hears that CAB are referring people to Payplan coz they are snowed under.

Sharkleycard's calls are getting out of hand, on Saturday I had about 11 and Sunday nearly as many. Today I've had 8 so far. I did read the OFT guidelines and there is a para about "unreasonable times" of calls, but when you go to the contact OFT page they say they cannot accept complaints from individual consumers.

Yes I would do that, just in case they don't keep an individual file for your correspondence. With some large companies they just respond to correspondence as it comes in and just apply notes on their computer database. If you don't send it again they are bound to ask.

Huckster

I do use the car as part of my journey to work.

So I just send the same form I've already sent to them.

Yes the number of calls could be considered harassment and therefore the OFT may be interested. You should contact Consumer Direct who are the telephone helpline for the OFT and see what they say.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

Only send Mint a letter containing the basic information i.e a summary of the debts and your income/expenditure details. Don't send them copy bank statements. It is only payplan and the other debt advisory companies when looking at your situation that would need all the extra statements etc, when advising you of the best way forward. In regard to the car, if this was not being used to get you to work, if you were advised to look at other ways of repaying debt, the car could be considered.

Huckster

Sharkleycard are getting on my nerves now, they are constantly ringing (11 times on Saturday and nearly as many on Sunday). They've just started again today. Do you think I have a right to complain to OFT?

My cards are at home so will bring in the Mint one tomorrow and send back to them with a letter and the income/expenditure form which I already sent them on 28 November. Should I send this again, but with copy bank statement etc? I've heard that you're supposed to send bank statements, utility bills and salary slips with it which National Debtline failed to say on their website and just said to write enclosing the form that you fill in online. I feel like I'm taking steps backwards!

As I said I have spoken to Payplan before and they sent me the information pack I was supposed to fill in and send back, but I found it too invasive, it was asking about the value of my car etc? It makes me worry that they will force me to sell my car or whatever to pay my debts.

Yes do as Mint have asked, cut up the card and send back with full details of the debts, plus your income/expenditure.

As Mint has the enforceable agreement which I think they must also realise, this must obviously be a priority in coming to an arrangement to repay at an affordable level.

I have heard of people being referred by CAB to payplan as they are snowed under. It can take apparently more than a month to get an appointment at some local CAB offices.

You could try CCCS. Why not phone them and if you find their advisor helpful, provide them with the full information and see what they recommend.

Some of the information held on the Insolvency helpline site is also useful and they also have a freephone helpline. http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/

In think once you have expert advice about your current position, you can then work out the way forward.

Huckster

huckster:

Bubs

I have kept up with your posts.

Didn't you say previously that Mint would not look at your reduced payment offer until the account was in default? Now that you are in default why don't you write to them setting out your full financial circumstances.

Personally if I were in your position I would be using one of the debt companies to write to the various companies. They are more likely to accept the reduced payments if it comes from independent debt specialists, rather than yourself.

Over the last week or so, your posts appear to indicate that you have come to a crossroads and you are looking for some concrete advice as to what steps you should now take. This is where I think you would perhaps be better to discuss your options with a debt specialist.

Some agreements may be unenforceable and therefore you may decide like others to default on these and deal with the consequences. If this is a road you go down, the debts will continually be passed around the DCA's, with all the letters, phone calls and threatened door step visits. This could go on for 6 years or more. My experience of debts from assisting a relative, is that companies are very reluctant to chance their arm in court. They threaten that they may go down this route, but why bother when they know they can sell the debt on. The various DCA's all threatened that they may have gone to court, but as the agreements were old and passed through many hands, they did not bother. The debts are now statute barred and not currently chased, since they were last warned off.

Huckster

Hi Huckster

Thanks for your reply. The letter from Mint enclosing the default said: "Thank you for telling us that you are unable to correct the position on your account because of financial problems.

We think that the best course of action now is to withdraw your credit card facility, so we enclose a default notice which you should read carefully. We have to send you this notice by law before we can terminate our agreement with you and arrange a repayment programme.

At the end of the stipulated period, your agreement will be formally terminated and we shall again contact you with regard to the repayment of the outstanding balance."

It goes on about sending the card back cut in half and to cancel any regular payments from the account.

So do you think I should reply again with another copy of the income/expenditure form?

I have tried ringing CAB but can never get through even though the office is supposed to be open during the times I have called. What about CCCS? The other one I tried was Payplan, but the 'Information pack' they sent I found too invasive and thought it better to contact the credit card companies myself.

Bubs

I have kept up with your posts.

Didn't you say previously that Mint would not look at your reduced payment offer until the account was in default? Now that you are in default why don't you write to them setting out your full financial circumstances.

Personally if I were in your position I would be using one of the debt companies to write to the various companies. They are more likely to accept the reduced payments if it comes from independent debt specialists, rather than yourself.

Over the last week or so, your posts appear to indicate that you have come to a crossroads and you are looking for some concrete advice as to what steps you should now take. This is where I think you would perhaps be better to discuss your options with a debt specialist.

Some agreements may be unenforceable and therefore you may decide like others to default on these and deal with the consequences. If this is a road you go down, the debts will continually be passed around the DCA's, with all the letters, phone calls and threatened door step visits. This could go on for 6 years or more. My experience of debts from assisting a relative, is that companies are very reluctant to chance their arm in court. They threaten that they may go down this route, but why bother when they know they can sell the debt on. The various DCA's all threatened that they may have gone to court, but as the agreements were old and passed through many hands, they did not bother. The debts are now statute barred and not currently chased, since they were last warned off.

Huckster

What about the default notice from Mint (their agreement is enforceable). Do I need to do anything, as I said I've already started my pro rata payment with them, even though they haven't accepted the offer yet.

All the copy 'agreements' I have are on this thread. Basa has looked at them and seems to think that Lloyds and Sharklaycard are unenforceable.

I haven't done a SAR.

Hi Bubbs. Happy New Year!

I've just jound a copy of this judgement (carey v hsbc) though I haven't read it - 59 pages long! I have been reading all afternoon threads on CAG. The general feeling seems to be that nothing much has changed and the scope of this judgment was very narrow, dealing with s.78 requests rather than the consequences of a lender having an improperly executed agreement. The consequences of a creditor having an unenforceable credit agreement don't appear to have changed. Barclaycard and the others will be able to legally seriously screw your credit rating but if you have managed to get hold of a proper copy of the original agreement (and its defective), then that's all they can do.

The other key issue was that this wasn't a CCC coming after a debtor, it was the other way round and the burden of proof rested with the debtor - who doesn't appear to have had any proof!

I guess it will be properly dissected in the next few days and the truth will out!

Don't panic!!!

Brooooooooooce:

Yep, a very similar letter. But they ignore them and when they reply they always send a template letter. Barclaycard send the same bumpf to everyone (or so it seems from reading different forums). They never send a copy of an original agreement and I only got mine because I SAR'd them. I am confident that it is unenforceable but I guess ultimately only a Court can decide. But I won't be taking them, I'lll just wait and see what they do.

To date I have had a couple of defaults and dozens of phone calls. At the moment the hassle is worth it.

Only a court can ultimately decide if your agreement is enforceable and if your CCC takes you to court and obtains a judgement then you will only be asked to pay what you can afford - the same as if you do a DMP now.When you read the other forums the message that you get is that the CCC's rely on people losing their nerve.

Happy New Year. And to start the year I've had my first default notice from Mint. They wrote before in response to my pro rata offer and said they would have to wait for my account to go into default and now they've written with a default notice. What do I do? I've already made a pro rata payment to them this month.

Also worrying about the post I've just read about the Manchester test cases. However, I'm willing to pay Mint as their agreement is enforceable.

Yep, a very similar letter. But they ignore them and when they reply they always send a template letter. Barclaycard send the same bumpf to everyone (or so it seems from reading different forums). They never send a copy of an original agreement and I only got mine because I SAR'd them. I am confident that it is unenforceable but I guess ultimately only a Court can decide. But I won't be taking them, I'lll just wait and see what they do.

To date I have had a couple of defaults and dozens of phone calls. At the moment the hassle is worth it.

Only a court can ultimately decide if your agreement is enforceable and if your CCC takes you to court and obtains a judgement then you will only be asked to pay what you can afford - the same as if you do a DMP now.When you read the other forums the message that you get is that the CCC's rely on people losing their nerve.