Ignore her she's knows nowt! I've just told mine to make my dinner and get back to the ironing! Ouch!

Mine keeps asking me what I have achieved with all this dispute stuff. I tell her I saved us between £4K & 5K in payments up to now plus reminding her that after 8 months of non payment, as Stubie says, if they thought they had a chance I would be cowering in front of a judge by now.

Pink & blue jobs. Pink & blue!

So you've been at this 8 months (or possibly longer?). Have any of your creditors agreed to full & final offers?

Ey up chaps! Need a little help if you can assist.

On 2.11.09 wrote a nice letter to the Company Secretary of Capital One chasing my SAR. 6.11.09 a reply is sent (though only got it today) from 'Executive Response'. Few things:

1. I have written 4 letters plus my SAR all of which weren't replied to. Capital Ones response 'I can see that we have responded to each of the letters we have received'. What nonsense.

2. I stated the account was in dispute, they respond, 'do not consider the account to be in dispute as we have fulfilled on what you have requested by providing you with a copy of your current agreement in compliance with s.78....'

3. They deny ever receiving my SAR and 'As a result, we have not failed to comply with your request and your claim to the contrary is unjustified and inappropriate'. Good job I sent it recorded and Royal Mail delivered it and got a signature. Ha ha!

4. They now enclose a photocopy of an application form from 1996 which I assume is a microfiche copy as it is A5 not A4 and I couldn't manage to sign my name that small. No prescribed terms at all however it does state that 'I have read the terms and conditions overleaf setting out the agreement with Capital One and in the event that my application is accepted...' A set of T & C covering 4 A4 pages was enclosed but not a copy of the back side of the original application. What do we think? Is it likely they have the original document or just a microfiche? Do they even have a copy of the back side? In the letter she states 'I am enclosing a true copy of the original executed agreement comprising the scanned image of the signature page of the executed agreement together with the t & c.'' Is a scanned image all they have?

5. They refuse to stop collection activities because they don't accept the account is in dispute.

I have prepared the following letter in response, I would be very grateful for any comments:

XXXXXXXXX, Executive Response Centre

Capital One Bank

PO Box 5283

Nottingham

NG2 3YG

19 November 2009

Dear Ms XXXXXXXX

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

RE: Credit Card Number XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX - Account in Dispute

Further to letter dated the 6^th November 2009 which was only received today.

Firstly, I am a little mystified by the second paragraph of your letter in which you state, ‘…we have responded to each of the letter…within the prescribed timeframes.’ Where is the response to my letters of the 2^nd September 2009, 8^th October 2009, 14^th October 2009 and the 20^th October 2009? All these letters were sent to your colleague XXXXXXXX. Contrary to your claims, no response has been provided to any of these letters. Hence my letter to the Company Secretary of Capital One, Vicky Mitchell (surprise, surprise you provide an almost immediate response).

Turning to the rest of your letter:

1. Section 78 of the CCA 1974 does not require Capital One to provide ‘…you with a copy of your current agreement…’, it requires Capital One to provide a ‘…a true copy of the executed agreement…’. These are clearly not the same thing and the CCA 1974 is clear as to both meaning and purpose. Accordingly until such time as you comply with the CCA 1974 my account will remain in dispute and I am not obliged to offer any form of payment of the alleged debt.

1. A SAR along with the appropriate fee of £10.00 was submitted to your colleague XXXXXXXX on the 2^nd September 2009. A reminder was sent on the 8^th October 2009 (you didn’t reply), another on the 14^th October 2009 (you didn’t reply) and another on the 20^th October 2009 (again you didn’t reply). Thankfully I sent my original SAR by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery - tracking id XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, sent to PO Box 5283, NG2 9HD, delivered and signed for on the 4^th September 2009. A copy of the proof of delivery is enclosed. Please establish where my SAR is and comply with it as soon as possible. Perhaps you would now like to reconsider your comment, ‘As a result, we have not failed to comply with your request and your claim to the contrary is unjustified and inappropriate.’

1. I refer you to point one above for the correct interpretation of Section 78 of the CCA 1974. I thank you for providing a copy of the ‘Capital One Visa Application Form’ together with a separate document entitled ‘Terms and conditions’. The document provided is clearly not an agreement but rather an application, which is not binding on Capital One. The text above the signature box states ‘…in the event that my application is accepted.’ I refer you to Section 59 of the CCA 1974 for the relevant applicable section of the act. You clearly state that agreement will only be binding on completion of your final checks. This effectively turned this agreement into a binding future agreement; after all you could still have turned me down. Upon completing your final checks you should have sent out a correct and proper agreement binding on both parties when I signed it.

In any event the document you have provided has not been properly executed in accordance with Section 61(1) of the CCA 1974 and is therefore only enforceable by an order of the court by virtue of Section 65. The ‘executed agreement’ which you state you have provided does not contain any of the prescribed terms, as it appears these are contained in the separate document entitled ‘Terms and conditions’. In this case I refer you to Section 127 of the CCA 1974 and do not consider that you are entitled to an enforcement order from the court.

1. The absence of a legally compliant agreement is clearly a valid dispute, so your collection activities at this time are clearly inappropriate and in contravention of the OFT guidance in this regard.

I would reiterate the content of my previous letters in that I would prefer an amicable solution to this dispute. I would be willing to consider some form of ‘without prejudice’, full and final settlement of the alleged debt, purely as a means of bringing this dispute to an early resolution.

I have forwarded a copy of this letter to Vicky Mitchell, Capital One Company Secretary, in the hope this will ensure a response is forthcoming.

Yours faithfully

Ey up. Post man's just come knocking. Capital One have replied to my SAR, although they still say they never got my recorded delivery letter requesting it. What is interesting is that looking through the copies of letters provided, not all the ones I've sent were there. I confess that a couple of letters were sent 1st class and the rest (including the SAR) were recorded delivery. The only letters that are there (with the exception of the SAR) are the ones sent recorded the other 2 aren't there - sent to the same person at the same address. Do they bin letters sent by ordinary post so they can deny ever having received them?

What do you make of this written in the letter containing my SAR: 'The signature part of your credit agreement does not constitute the full terms and conditions and these can be found on your current credit agreement.' ?????????

Thanks in advance.

Brooooooooooce:

Pink & blue jobs. Pink & blue!

So you've been at this 8 months (or possibly longer?). Have any of your creditors agreed to full & final offers?

I've never actually made any F&F offers, just requests to enter into 'meaningful and reasonable' correspondence to resolve the disputes. No take up as yet except from one who wanted 75% - I offered back at 5%. It was declined !

Brooce

Companies are very careful to ensure that replies should always be issued when recorded delivery correspondence is received. For the financial services companies I have worked for, the RD envelope was always kept stapled to the letter, just to remind staff. If a reply was not sent and a customer complained, there would be an enquiry through the workflow to see who was allocated the post. I can tell you, it can be pretty uncomfortable when you have the CEO's office breathing down your neck, asking for information. This is why you should always send important letters to companies recorded. In regard to other letters received by standard post, companies receive thousands everyday and as this is not always listed as being allocated to be dealt with, on occasions replies are not always issued. I have heard that some companies do have unwritten procedures to file some letters through their shredders.

What do you make of this written in the letter containing my SAR: 'The signature part of your credit agreement does not constitute the full terms and conditions and these can be found on your current credit agreement.' ?????????

I think that are just saying the up to date terms and conditions can be found on your current agreement. They are usually sent with your monthly statements.

Huckster

Do you know of anyone posting one here who has had a full & final offer accepted or are they all hush hush.

Your letter looks good except you should obviously remove references to non reciept of SAR.

These application / agreements are a bit tricky. Most times they claim the prescribed terms were on the reverse of the application. (Most times this is a lie).

I have two agreements exactly like that. The law requires under the CPR that originals are produced into court. However I am still a little unsure as to what concessions may be granted where the creditor argues (for logistical reasons) only microfiche or electronic copies are available. ('Cos we all know how these can be 'edited' to suit a purpose).

Brooce

I can't recall anyone who has come on here recently advising that they have had a low F&F accepted. I think the debts these companies are holding are so huge, that they are probably very reluctant to accept too low an offer. Perhaps those that have had offers accepted are told that they should not publicise this and therefore are too afraid to post.

Many years ago a relatiive of mine, handed the keys back to their mortgage company and were left with a debt of more than £20k. They offered £2 or £3k as an F&F after setting out their financial circumstances and this was accepted.

Huckster

Thanks for your post Basa.

Yeh I'll remove references to non receipt of the SAR and add in how odd it is that the only letters Capital One apparently received are the ones sent recorded! Ha ha. I'll also ask for a copy of the reverse, although I can't imagine it being remotely legible as the text would have to be so small. Does anyone know of any case where the courts have accepted anything other than an original document?

Also thanks for yours Huckster. I have been asking some of my creditors if they will discuss a full and final offer but to date none have replied to my letters.

Thanks again.