A friend of mine has just recently bought a new car from ukcarbroker, his car was supplied by a dealer in Ireland and I was wondering if anyone else had experience of this?

Does ukcarbroker always supply cars from Ireland or does anyone know which uk dealers they use as well?

P.A

Personally I wouldn't part with the cost of a new car without seeing it or, at the very least, visiting the dealer's premises. There are too many scams which use the internet to take money without even giving a "thank you" in return.

I've visited their site and a number of things cause me concern.

Some of their "new" vehicles are not supplied with the registration papers. This could be to help companies raise finance by taking out a finance agreement over several years then selling the vehicle for quick money today. It's illegal and if you are not the registered owner, you could have untold problems if you had, for example, to make an insurance claim.

One part of the site claims that they have been trading for over 12 years. Elsewhere it states that they are in their 7th year of business. Both can't be true.

One of their adverts states that "All are cars are UK supplied therefore 3yrs warranty will apply" (sic) which contradicts with what you have found out.

As mentioned, if the price was attractive enough it might tempt me to go round, meet the people, kick the tyres, check the documents and so on. If viewing wasn't "convenient" for whatever reason, I wouldn't have anything to do with them.

Thank you for your info.

I have been offered from some brokers a pre registered car which I found out that they will keep the V5/Registration Document for upto 6 months as well. This would certainly cause problems with my insurance and also the police if I was stopped!!!!!!!

Viewing of any new car is impossible if its a factory order and most cars these days seem to be. I more than happy to buy from a broker where I can save a lot of money as long as I dont have any of the paperwork held back for any reason. I have also found dealers/salesmen can be rude and not that interested in doing a deal?

Anyway I shall continue shopping for now.

Patch is this your dad or your friend this time??? why are you making things up to go on this site pretending you are a punter, your just making a fool of yourself, people reading this post would be advertised to read other posts, it appears opatch has friends currently dealing with a lot of different dealers, yet funnily enough none of them are buying a car of him, I do believe in one post you claim to be a dealer patch? Come on spill the beans????

I used to work for a very very large corporation that had over 100 company vehicles. As the cars were on some sort of contract, we didn't ever have the registration documents in our name.

Currently, I have 2 colleauges who have vehicles on business lease. They insure the cars fully comprehensively, but they don't have registration documents either.

Methinks you work for a vehicle supplier and are more than happy to disparage any on-line type agencies that sell pre-reg. cars. (unless it's 'Drive the Deal' perhaps)

If anyone wishes to check my historical posts, you'll find that I bought a 'pre-reg' car. I'm an intelligent type, and fully aware that all these 'fantastic' offers are because the cars are registered as 'fleet'. Doesn't bother me... I'm legally insured with a nationally recognised company who are fully aware that I have no registration documentation in my name (yet)...

I have read on several posts, 'Warnings' from supposedly interested parties, most of whom, I firmly believe are employed in the 'car-trade', and who, understandably are worried about the future of their 'glass-palaces'..

Basically, the dealer network costs a fortune for the manufacturers to maintain.. Bonuses, gifts, freebies such as holidays for target achievement, and not least the fact that an awful lot of manufacturers allow 'free showroom stock' for a couple of months.Add to that the salaries of regional management, national advertising and brochure costs.... Obviously, all this money comes from somewhere... yes you guessed it... the retail customer.

Fair enough... but I'd rather buy on line and even though I was stung once... (see previous posts), as a businessman, I firmly believe that the days of showrooms are numbered unless the manufacturers accept that they have for far too long managed to retain this 2 tier pricing policy..

I will by 'on-line' next time too..

If a car exists, there surely can't be any good reason for not viewing or collecting it? When you buy from a dealer, yes you may pay a deposit when you order the car but you are still allowed, even encouraged, to pick the car up rather than getting it delivered. Dealers are also happy to arrange a test drive in a similar vehicle if you are ordering a new one. The usual scam is that the owner is abroad on business but even then, the hustler will lose interest if the buyer expresses an interest in travelling to wherever the car is.

If you are spending a few pounds on a book, it is perhaps not unreasonable for the seller not to allow a viewing before payment. If you are risking £000s, buyers need to be more cautious.

If you send £000s to a business that you haven't visited for a car that you haven't seen, you should consider yourself lucky just to have got a vehicle registered in someone else's name with unpaid finance. Many people receive nothing at all when they do this.

Dear all I'm Kev Overton and I've just joined this web site to add my comments.I'm the owner of UK Car Broker and I've never read so much rubbish.All cars are UK supplied direct from UK dealers so patcho please can you tell me which car came from Ireland?Never used Irish dealers because they do not give good discounts,you have transport cost over the Irish sea not to mention the Irish plates.Secondly if you read my web site it says on the FAQ's that I've been in the motor trade for 12 years and been trading for 7 years!

Patcho you may have been in the motor trade before but alot of your information is very misleading.If you buy a car which is pre-registered and the log book is retained you are still the legal owner of the car.All you have to do is tell the insurance company this at the start.The log book is not a legal document at it says this at the top of every log book.Insurance companies will always pay out to the legal owner not the registered keeper!As for the finance on cars anyone could put finance on any car if they have a credit consumer licence so that information is wrong.

Any questions please call me and I will glad to put your mind at ease.I've been selling cars on the internet for nearly 8 years soon and yes to plenty people in the Police and who are solictors!

Cheers

Kev Overton

Yes. Please explain clearly what your reason for wanting to keep the registration document? You state what the buyer may or may not be able to do without the document but what is it that you do that makes you want to keep it? Surely if a buyer pays in full for a vehicle, is it not unreasinable for them to expect to become the registered owner?

"anyone could put finance on any car if they have a credit consumer licence" - they will not have a consumer credit licence for long though if it became known that they were putting finance on people's cars without their knowledge or consent!

Hello maxstream

We sometimes buy cars from leasing companies/dealers who have fleet discounts but are not allowed to sell them within the first 6mths.However they do because they earn out of it and keep the log book incase the manufactures checks on them.This has been going on for years and most dealers have some pre-reg cars on the pitch and retain the log book for months on end.The dealers have been moaning about it for sometime but while ourselves and other brokers are selling cars nothing will change.In fact more and more dealers are doing what we are doing.I can supply all cars with the logbook and the customer can be the first owner but you will get half the discount so the choice is yours.

That is exactly right about the credit consumer licence but your were imply some one may put finance on a car if you haven't got the log book.But the fact is you do not need a log book to put finance on a car so no worries there.

Regards

Kev Overton

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*not allowed to sell them within the first 6mths.*

1. So why do they?

2. Is it legal to supply a new car without the registration document?

I do work in the motortrade in a round about way and I'm always keen to hear peoples views/opinions on whats happening currently in dealerships, with brokers and also importers. One thing I have learnt and I still find it incredible is that things are always easily expained by companies who offer such deals? Why is it never a problem until months or years down the line or when you come to sell your car.

An experience I know of which took place about 2 yrs ago. A contract hire company sold a lot of Audi's in the same way as explained above, they got customers to pay for the cars in full on delivery and the registration document was with held for 6 months on the promise it would be forwarded to the customer afterwards. So during the first 6 months this company continued to take and delivery new cars on the same basis, after a while it was quite clear the documents were not being sent to the customers on every car, some did make it I must say. After an investigation it was revealed that the contract hire company used a 3rd party company in order to provide a made up company name for fleet and registration discounts and to hold the customer documents until the sent them on to the owners of the cars.

Unfortunatley once it had been made clear what was happening the decided not to proceed with the offer on new Audi's and with no surprise they dissapeared and cease to trade any longer. This left people without the reg doc, with no one to chase to get hold of the reg doc's and a car they didnt own?

It does happen and I agree not to everyone but I would still feel a little nervous about this process as you have no come back once its all gone wrong and your 6 months down the road.

Patch A.

The top and bottom of all this is don't hand over any cash for a car which has no V5.

A car has no value without it.

I find it astounding that this practice carries on and that folk will part with money without obtaining the relevant portion of the registration document.

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You gotta tie yourself to the mast my friend, and the storm will end.

Dear All

Thankyou for your comments I'm always happy to answer questions you may have.

*not allowed to sell them within the first 6mths.*

1. So why do they?

Like I've mentioned before to make money! It's catch 22.The leasing companies get good discounts if they commit to sell so many cars.If they don't they will get less discount next year.

2.It's a good point patcho about the Audi supplier.However, I say it again the log book is not a legal document so it will not be a problem.If a leasing company went bust they should send the log book to DVLA or the broker as it is no good to them.If they don't all you have to do is complete a V62 form and send it to DVLA.This is a form if you lose your log book.Have a look at the top of the log book for your own car.It clearly states the the registered keeper is not nessarcarly the legal owner.It is not illegal to withheld a log book and if it was ever to be I would stop selling them and carry on selling cars where you are the 1st owner.Only about 30% of our cars can be pre reg'd in a company name for extra discount.

3.For example if you buy a Mondeo off me you have two choices.Either have 11% discount and be the 1st owner and receive the log book in weeks.Or have 24% discount recieve the same car from the same dealer but wait for the log book.You will be the legal owner of the car but not the registered keeper for he first 6mths.To finish with I can supply all makes with log books for less discount if the customer wants it and there is no pressure selling cars on the internet.

Regards

Kev Overton