i think that a lot of what was said earlier about revamping our tax laws etc etc is spot on.

I'm another one who seems to have a 'line in the sand' with regard to these things. I don't like copy DVDs and would never buy any, but that has a lot to do with the potential quality as well as the theft of copyright. I occasionally rip music, and burn it to CDs for my own usues and even more occasionally, I burn one for a friend. All my music is downloaded legitimately, but I did send one such track to a friend in Australia, attached to an email.

I signed that recent petition online about being able to rip and burn tracks you've paid for so that you can use them in MP3 or CD format. I couldn't agree more about that.

Anyway, I am mostly on the side of the legitimate and wouldn't buy black market. But the odd transgression doesn't worry me.

Cat

I have to agree about downloading. I usually download my music from Itunes and don't mind paying for it - but that wouldn't stop me from accepting a copy of the tracks a friend might have downloaded onto a CD...and I have been known to burn CDs for friends too. Obviously not large scale fraud or theft but technically illegal. I've been breaking the law since I was at junior school by copying my friends music and copying mine for them - at what point does it become 'black market' activity as we're ALL doing it.

I downloaded illegally from Kazaa and Napster before they were kosher, and TBH I didn't think twice about it, I just did it. Then they were shut down and the hoo haah about illegal downloads started up, and so people like Itunes and then the new, legit Napster cashed in on our desire to share files and download music.

So everyone wins...kind of.

On a more expensive scale...have any of you ever used a copy of someone else's software and stuck it onto your PC for free? I know I have. Software like Quark & Dreamweaver is disgustingly expensive for an individual, and many people I know will rip off a copy of a friends, or know of ways to get a free version from the internet with a bit of fiddling around.

It's wrong, and if pushed I will admit to feeling slightly guilty for it...but not massively. If the prices were more realistic for an individual licence, there's be more people buying this ludicrously-priced software and not pinching it from dodgy sources.

I'm asbolutely (sic) with Cheeky on this one I'm afraid...
I'll admit I've done probably more than my share of illegal music downloads over many years, and will probably continue to do so.
I know this cannot really be morally or economically justified these days, especially as I am hardly on the breadline, and I could buy all of this stuff if I wanted to.
To be fair though, everything I download is for my own use, and I DO still buy a great deal of music, probably a good deal more than before the advent of dodgy downloads. I'm not using those points as justification, not at all, but them's the facts nevertheless.

It is also a great way to get hold of hard-to-find older music which in all likelihood will never be officially produced again (just last week I downloaded an obscure old album which is unavailable new now and always will be. Used copies start at about £50... I know of many more extreme examples than this too. Again, a fact not an attempted justification.

Two further points, firstly a previous poster mentioned the ability to legally download most music now for a couple of pounds. Question... Do you think for one minute these legal download sites would be anything like as wide in their coverage, or as reasonably priced were it not for the scale of illegal downloads? My own view is that the record companies would have stuck their heads in the sand and flatly refused to invest in web technology and new media. My point here is that sometimes illegal actions can bring about positive change. Is that a justification for illegal downloads? Who knows... I won't claim it is though...

Secondly, Cheeky's point (well made) about corporate profiteering. How can it be legislated, or analysed meaningfully? The answer is that it cannot, but I'd be willing to bet that could the illegal download economic model outlined above be applied to other industries and services which we all use and pay for, then right-thinking companies could still make a profit, but prices to the consumer would plummet.

Much of that is pure speculation I know, and impossible to back up with facts. But when I start to think about the mentality and strategy/poilicies employed by the big record companies, I have no problem sleeping at night (whilst my illegal downloads run).

Cheeky's right. A modicum of pragmatism is required when attempting to classify all black market activity in the same manner as burglary.

At peak times our Town Centre is besieged with counterfeit DVD sellers. Prospective buyers have a leisurely chat with the vendor while looking through his stock. Should the police appear the vendor will run like the wind but there is no need for the buyer so to do. The law can't touch him!

Mnnn... Difficult one this. No - I would not buy an obviously blackmarket expensive piece of furniture or equipment, because as one of the posters said - some poor person has had that nicked from their home or car etc. However, something like music CD's, or software manuals - have to confess going into a grey area here for me. I have researched the profits these organisations make, and the word usery comes to mind. There is an honest profit - and extortion is the other side of the coin. Price these things realistically and the masses will willingly pay the honest coin. Overprice - and the original vendor creates the environment for the black market themselves.

Does this REALLY suprise you when you think how much tax we pay?

People who buy obviously dodgy stuff have no right to complain if they get broken into and lose stuff themselves. Lets face it, thieves steal to sell gear and make money. If people stopped buying it there'd be no market and far fewer burglaries. The people who buy stolen gear are just as guilty as the scumbags who steal it in the first place and both deserve to go to prison.

my ex bought a DVD player for £25 which was obviously dodgey. I don't know if i would do it. I think CDs and DVDs are pointless as you can generally download it legally for a couple of pounds.

Halifax recently carried out a survey about the amount of money the black market makes in illegal trade of CDs, DVDs, jewellery and electrical items, which has reached a staggering £1 billion.  According to the survey results 1 in 8 people have knowingly bought illegal goods and two thirds  would not hesitate at the chance of buying illegal again.  Have you ever bought illegal goods knowingly, and if so, would you do it again to save money?