Joxroach,

Thanks for that link to the website. The thumbprint idea is a brilliant one and I will be definitely taking that offer up.

I was an ID Theft victim 6 or 7 years ago but this would have saved all the hassle.

Maybe Tim Moss could see about the possibility of featuring this idea on the home page of Moneysupermarket.

Cheers

ATM

Why become a victim of ID Thieves?

I made a posting on another thread on this very topic.

Check out the link below from The East of Scotland Fraud Forum:

http://www.eastscotlandfraudforum.org.uk/thumbprint-protection.asp

i agree with you absolutely.

i feel that the whole buzz term ' identity theft' is just a tool by which lenders hope to shift responsibility for preventing fraudulent applications (and the costs thereof) onto consumers. it seems that fear is now the single most powerful tool in marketing and sales. why should i pay for identity fraud insurance, let alone wast my time sorting the mess out, so that banks may save money by not going to sufficient legnths to ensure that applicants are who they claim to be? Dare i suggest that the problem is not as widespread or severe as banks would have us believe, rather it is just a con, to make us upgrade to the 'additions' accounts, at 8 quid or so per month, which come with free identity fraud assistance?

Frankly, if Barclaycard (or any other) allow someone to obtain credit in my name, then they have lost that money. I sure as hell wont pay the bill. If the bank then send threatening letters, and balifs, then i shall consider this ' demanding money with mennaces' and i will call the police. banks are just as capable of threatening behaviour as a thug in the street.

i have a realy simple solution to this. banks should not extend credit to anyone who cannot show up to a personal interview with their passport. a passport costs 80 quid, and is about as good a proof of identity as you get. anyone who cannot afford a passport, or is not elligable for one, is clearly not worthy of credit, without extensive checks being carried out by other means. (it wont happen, because they make a fortune off selling credit to people who are not credit worthy, at eye watering rates, of 47% pa or more [vanquis] 'in order to rebuild your credit score')

it disgusts me that these people are falling over themselves to get as many of us as possible aboard the minimum payment gravy train, cash cattle to milk for life, or bundles of unsecured debt, to flog wholesale as asset to other evil exploiters, in order to make their shareholders rich.

a few years back, my exgirlfriend, recieved a pre-approved crdit card application form through the post from none other than the 'ethical' co-op bank. 'just sign this and return it, Miss 'B'....... your card will be with you shortly. which she did. (of course she did, she was 18, niaeve, unemployed and skint) no checks, just 200 quid free money, to a teenager. she's 23 now, and with charges, and fines for none payments, she now owes them aroud 3 grand

The Law relating to Banking is quite interesting in so far that there isn't much of it...The Bills of Exchange Act and The Cheques Act is about as far as I can go. There is a welter of case law, but in essence the banker customer relationship is chiefly one of agency I believe i.e. a Bank acts as the agent of the account holder in making payments on his behalf to third parties. Unless the account holder is negligent to a degree which aids fraud (in which case a judge in court might find them to be partly to blame) then the Bank is cannot make a fraudulent transaction into a legitimate one.
I would be most interested to hear on what legal basis "the burden of proof rests with the account holder" arises. I must say that on the one occasion when I have suffered a fraudulent transaction on my charge card I was promptly reimbursed.....but that was a few years ago.
I agree that IVA's have been a good solution but I would hope only a temporary one. It is absolutely essential in a civilised society for people and institutions to be responsible. Some of the marketing ploys undertaken by credit card companies take some believing - debt advisors at Citizens Advice Bureaux get quite apoplectic about it. Far more educational effort is needed about the financial system in this country and personal financial management.
I have spent 40 years in finance both personal and corporate...frankly I am quite ashamed of a great deal of what goes on these days. Banking and Insurance are the UK's biggest earners but the pressure to increase earnings year on year and the eschewing of professionalism in favour of salesmanship and the bonus reward sytem, has made many of the current institutions morally and ethically bankrupt.

Hi hugvic,

Thank you for taking the time to right a response to my article in the latest edition of Rate Alert.

I'd like to go through your post point by point and give you my views on the subjects you raise.

The Identity Theft Insurance is a useful product. I agree that banks will be making money from this, however, it is not a legal requirement to have it so it is up to the consumer to decide whether it is for them or not. However I do agree that some identity theft cases are caused by the actual banks themselves not doing their checks diligently enough.

I understand you point about what law exists, but unfortunately they don't need a law. The burden of proof is on you to prove that it was not you that originally obtained the credit. Guilty until proven innocent - like many of the laws that currently exist in the British Judicial system.

I disagree that it is more difficult to get a savings account than it is to get a loan. A savings accounts doesn't require a detailed credit check for a start. And the amount of money they lost due to fraud is negligible, so please don;t think the insurance products are there to cover their losses. Those products that exist, are there to protect the consumer from the fastest growing UK crime. Not to make sure the bank covers its fraud losses.

Your last paragraph is very true and is something very close to my and moneysupermarket's heart. We always look to the lenders to become more responsible in their lending. The rise of IVAs is a good example of this. The banks are currently shouting from the rooftops and accusing the government of increasing their bad debt rates due to the introduction of IVAs. The Goverment's reponse is "If you had leant responsibly in the first place, we wouldn't have had to introduce the IVA". A great response.

What are your views on IVA's?

Tim

Whilst I appreciate that identity theft and subsequent fraud is increasing hugely I find it very annoying that it seems to have opened up endless opportunities for Banks, Credit Agencies and even websites to further (financially) exploit victims and potential victims of identity theft. For example, my bank is trying to sell me identity theft insurance; Moneysupermarkets.com is suggesting in its lead advice on this subject that I pay a monthly fee to a credit rating agency to check my credit rating. Can you advise me what statute (law) exists in the UK which will make me guilty (of breaking the law) or liable in any way to anyone if a fraudster passes himself off as me and a Bank, Credit Card Company etc lends him money which they don't repay?

In my opinion, if you are a victim of identity theft and a Bank or Credit Card Company lends to the fraudster, then you should have recourse under the law to claim against such Bank for any costs you might incur having to put your credit rating back in order.

Let us be honest, it is more difficult to open any type of savings account with a Bank (because of Money Laundering regulations) than it is to get a loan. Why? .....well banks make more money out of lending and insurance products. In fact they make so much money that they can afford not to ask too many questions. If they can't recover their losses from victims of fraud (which they will make every effort to do), then they will sell them an insurance product which will at least give them a nice income to offset against their fraud losses...which if I'm not mistaken can also be set off against their corporation tax liability!

The only reason why Identity theft flourishes is because of the Banks and other lenders....they urgently need to re-write their business model and lend responsibly. The Government has a responsibility to educate and legislate.....Moneysupermarket.com should champion the financial consumer and urge its readers to write to their MP's, Councillors local press etc about irresponsible lending