IMPDA is not strong enough on its own. This must come from government action, not simply from the forums making fists and shouting a lot.

The UK has regulated virtually every facet of life which is unnecessary and turns a blind eye to the real problems as they are impotent to actually DO anything. The public needs to be educated not to give patronage to any cashback retailer. If they stop getting business, they will be out of business.

SHARK!

Why doesn't everyone go to the industries sire called www.impda.co.uk they have a poll asking if we want cashbacks stopped, if its going to help we all need to vote on it, then when they they see the feeling of us customers they might then take action to stop thjis once and for all

Hi,

The companies that are responsible for all this trouble will never be closed down unless the public don't use them. Quite simple..... cash back does not work.... don't buy from these companies....they will close down....only legitimate ones left. We have reasonable call charges now and competitive contracts from the providers direct, there is no need to use the rip off boys. It's your choice it has been documented about the problems and pitfallls what more can be said?? At the end of the day it's your own fault for falling for it. Cheaper is as a rule not better!!

Ian 

Actually no, OFCOM is a toothless tiger with half a communal brain cell and the power of half a glow-worm's ar5e.

OFCOM made the recommendation (like the public had not said a word about this) and the networks decided that not to heed such a recommendation MIGHT actually start costing them customers. If anything was going to 'go the distance' and not heed OFCOM, I'd be very interested to know exactly what OFCOM would have actually done about it. Stamped their foot and made petulant comments, or pointed the blame at Brussels maybe. Who knows?

Bottom line is that OFCOM is a useless waste of time that costs the public millions each year.

SHARK!

I thought OFCOM were the ones that enforced lower charges to customers of mobile networks?

Ah yes, now here we have another bunch of usless to55ers in the form of OFCOM. Now what do they actually DO. Nothing. You advise them of a serious situation and they do ... NOTHING. You write to them and they do ... NOTHING. In fact in the years that they have been around, I cannot see ONE positive thing that this bunch of layabouts has actually done to improve the situation for consumers.

25 years in the IT industry has taught me many things, but the most important one is that if you see a new 'regulatory body' that has been brought in by the government, this will be the most useless bunch of expensive wastes of time imaginable. They have no expertise, no power and even less motivation to do anything except make noises and blame everyone else. Oh, and they cost the tax payer millions over the rip-offs that they are supposed to prevent from happening in the first place.

The biggest oxymoron in the English language is "Government Expert" the next is "Industry Regulation".

Cashbacks are effectively 'daylight robbery' and no OFCOM regulation is going to make one iota of difference. The law needs to be changed to make networks completely responsible for contracts issued by anyone on their behalf and the networks culpable for their agent's behaviour. Only then will you see some sense coming into this melee of greed and corruption.

SHARK!

OFCOM signed up all of the Network Providers to a code of conduct on 31/07/07. See OFCOM's website for a copy of it. This code puts a lot more responsibility on the Network Provider to vet the resellers they use so I suppose if something like cashback or other mis-selling by the reseller happens, if this breaches the code in any way the Network Providers can be called to be at fault.

My point exactly! The one group who could stop this are the ones who by their very silence are the most guilty - the networks. If they offered this service, they would - with one single stroke - cut out all the middle men completely, but it serves them to turn a blind eye and blame the con men on the high street.

Of course they won't take up my idea - it is NOT in their interest to do so!

SHARK!

Hi Landshark,

I am confident that it is not the provider...Orange,O2, 3network etc that offers the cash back it is the individual company which sells the contract in the first place that employs these tactics. They have no idea what the clients spend is, their tactic is to ask for the impossible and it is this that creates the distrust that there is now. My annoyance is that the provider is aware of these complaints and could do something about it if they wished. The fulfillment company that administers the companies that offer these schemes should be called to book for allowing them to use their relationship with the provider to con the public. It is a cut throat business and there is an awful lot of intimidation and conflict involved, the sooner these call centres are closed the better it will be for everyone.

Regards

Ian 

Interesting to read completefinance's reply.

The basic mathematics simply doesn't work out. If everyone was to claim back what they are entitled to under the cashback agreement and the reseller honoured it, they would go bust. This means that TWO things have to work for this to be economically viable:

1. The customer must NOT be successful in his/her claim. Therefore the claim system must prevent them from doing so.

2. The customer must not be pro-actively contacted to receive their claim. Now this is where it gets interesting. The mobile networks KNOW EXACTLY who is spending what, when and where. This rather destroys the whole process of asking for the copy of the bill in the first place. If this was a genuine scheme, the cashback would be automatic as the nework knows who is spending what on each phone number, so why the complexity? It is because the system CANNOT work if the networks are to make money.

This means that the basic premise upon which cashback is based in fundamentally illegal or at least 'fringe' hence my campaign to get the practice banned UNLESS the networks take responsibility and make the payment automatic from their billing system WITHOUT the need to present bills or other rubbish.

There you go, gauntlet laid down, now see which of the mobile networks is honest enough to take the issue up.

SHARK!

PS: Call it the SHARK! Tariff and I won't even charge you for the free marketing service!

Totally 100% agree always get the right advice here...sadly as we have seen over the past week or two in this forum these cashback schemes have caused total chaos and anger among the losers. Surely as these sorry schemes continue to fail it has to be time to call an end to it?

Regards all have a canny weekend!

Paul

Hi Landshark.

A common sense post again but the paying public are gullible and will always been drawn to these unbelievable deals. I for my sins did own a mobile phone company for a year but lost out....why because I was honest!! I don't think everyone knows how these companies operate so I will try to elucidate?

Most companies are offices with only tele-sales and an administration team, the completion of these orders are processed by what are known as fulfillment companies. These companies are the ones with contracts with the providers and gives access for the tele-sales companies to offer contracts to the general public. It is the small tele-sales company that offers the cash backs and incentives and they all play the numbers game. You would be surprised how many people do not even apply for the cash back. We honored all our incentive schemes that is why I could never make any real money out of it. Each contract sold will make the tele-sales company around 100 - 150 quid, they pay their staff well and offer connection bonuses. You don't have to be a mathematician to work out that the cash backs are unworkable. If you see a wonderful deal out there negotiate with your current provider and you will be surprised what they will offer to keep you on. Regulation is desperately needed but until that time comes work on the principle that if it is too good to be true it's NOT!!!!

Regards

Ian
 

Shark ---- Well said, these schemes are offered as a, "spratt to catch a mackerel" if you will excuse the pun.   : - )  But these schemes have always smelt "Fishy".

I've said it elsewhere, but this is to solidify the point.

Cashback is only a discount system which has consistently proven to be a 'cheat' that benefits the supplier and not the consumer.

Since this is only a discount, why have it at all? If the networks and the suppliers want to offer discount, then do it at the point of sale. Most (if not all) the cashback schemes need the consumer to send in bills (this is a massive security risk) before any cashback is even considered. How do you know if you have adhered to the reseller's scheme? In short, you don't. Even with registered post and signed for deliveries, it seems that there is no end to the duplicity that SOME resellers will stoop to avoid paying you what you thought you would get.

Demand better discount at the point of sale (say 50% off everything for the duration of your contract) up front. No messing about, no stupid sub-clauses. Just plain, simple language that says "This is what I signed up for" so everyone knows where they stand.

Don't sign up to, or give patronage to any reseller dealing in these iniquitous schemes. Deal with the network providers themselves, not the middle-men. Time to stop this whole sordid affair once and for all!

End of problem, easily sorted.

SHARK!