1/ Getting them to try to sue you for non-payment (per your opening post) is a waste of time as a way to force them to give you a valid MAC . If you owe them money , they will win . You will be offline for ages .

2/ Paying the arrears and the notice before sueing negates your opening post as they wouldn't have grounds for sueing you in the first place , so it is no way to force them to give you a valid MAC .

3/ Paying the arrears and notice will not neccessarily get you a valid MAC as that is what I did . They gave an invalid MAC , said I'd be liable for any future connection charges if I didn't use the MAC as I'd still be on their system , thereby leaving me the option of continuing to pay them or having no internet , for months .

4/ That is why I had no option but to go the Managing Directors house route .

5/ Now you could sue them . This would be costly as you'd have to prove loss of earnings , emotional stress or loss of whatever it was you were claiming (loss of earnings probably wouldn't cut it as they'd say you should have been on a business tariff).

They have you by the balls really as Ofcom will not do a thing in individual cases .

"Getting them to try to sue you for non-payment (per your opening post) is a waste of time as a way to force them to give you a valid MAC . If you owe them money , they will win . You will be offline for ages ."

A company has to go through the procedure I outlined in my original post in order to recover payment. Given the choice of handing over a MAC or having to go through that process, they'll hand over the MAC.

"Paying the arrears and the notice before sueing negates your opening post as they wouldn't have grounds for sueing you in the first place , so it is no way to force them to give you a valid MAC ."

You offer to pay them the arrears and notice period, if they didn't hand over your MAC and lodged a county court claim. It's 100% unlikely it would come to this. Companies just want to turn a profit at the end of the day, not get embroiled in legal cases.

"Paying the arrears and notice will not neccessarily get you a valid MAC as that is what I did . They gave an invalid MAC , said I'd be liable for any future connection charges if I didn't use the MAC as I'd still be on their system , thereby leaving me the option of continuing to pay them or having no internet , for months ."

You don't pay them until you've been given a MAC and have switched providers. A company has to negotiate with a debtor. It doesn't just embark on a county court claim straightaway. This gives you weeks to ensure that you are able to switch providers.

"That is why I had no option but to go the Managing Directors house route ."

That could be considered harassment, which is a criminal offence

"Now you could sue them . This would be costly as you'd have to prove loss of earnings , emotional stress or loss of whatever it was you were claiming (loss of earnings probably wouldn't cut it as they'd say you should have been on a business tariff). "

It would be difficult to sue a company for withholding the MAC, which is why I've suggested persuading them to hand over the MAC by stopping payments.

"They have you by the balls really as Ofcom will not do a thing in individual cases . "

Not at all. If you withhold money, you have them by the balls, for the reasons you describe when you say suing them is impractical. Ofcom will do nothing to support you, however. Regulators are a cynical bunch, it's easier to ignore individuals than companies.

Have you actually tried your idea of threatening them to sue you to get a valid MAC ?

Best of luck if you intend to .

I' ve tried mine , and it certainly works , as a last resort .

Not with Tiscali, but I've done this with other companies who claim disputed payments in the past. They'll send aggressive emails claiming that you owe this and that, that they'll impose penalties detailed in their contract for non-payment, that they'll put a blackmark on your credit list etc. It's all crap.

In the situation described here, it would be ludicrous for the company to get all aggressive about payments if you simply state that you want your MAC and that if they supply it and you get verification that it works, you'll pay them.

So you haven't actually tried your advice on an Isp who is witholding a MAC .

Ergo you have no experience of the problem at all .

Visiting an MD of an internet firm (any firm) to advise them of the problems they are , as head of said firm , causing you would "not" be considered criminal (it isn't a Police State , run just for the rich , yet) :

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmstand/deleg2/st020318/20318s01.htm

"Having company directors' home addresses on the public record is important for reasons of accountability and transparency and has been a requirement under company law since 1917."

However , in my humble opinion , repeat visits AND intimidation with threats of pyhsical violence against people or property would be considered criminal , probably get , Ooooo , an ASBO .

Camping on their front garden , for example , until you got satisfaction would be considerered trespass which is a civil rather than criminal matter so long as no damage was caused (which would be a good way to get them to threaten to sue you , if that was your thang) .

<quote>

So you haven't actually tried your advice on an Isp who is witholding a MAC .

Ergo you have no experience of the problem at all .
</quote>

I don't think that I have to have experience in dealing with a particular type of company, in order to outline general principles in dealing with all companies who are failing to provide service, and who will provide that service if you withhold cash. If I'd said I'd have had experience dealing with Be, then no doubt you'd say I had no experience with Tiscali.

The alternative which you clearly strongly believe in, is to go around a company MD's house. I don't see your alternative as very practical. e.g.

1. A lot of people won't be able to find the MD's address.

2. The MD may be located a long way away from the complainant (even in another country).

3. The MD may well not be in, when you turn up.

4. A company only has to provide director's addresses once a year. If he moves since he last sent his address, you could end up hassling the person who bought his house

5. Things could turn ugly.

For the record, there are plans afoot to allow directors to hide their home addresses.

P.S. I'll end this chat now, just in case you turn up at my house :)

How come there's no emoticon of someone banging their head against a brick wall on this site ?

1/ As previously mentioned go to http://www.companieshouse.co.uk/ . Then click on Webcheck , type in the company name you are after (make sure it's the correct one) , click on the company name from the list , click Order information on this company , chose Current Appointments Report and then Add to order . Then follow instructions . Costs £1 per company .

2/ Write a letter .

3/ See above .

4/ The letter is forwarded .

5/ So long as the Director is the one making it turn ugly you are not liable .

"For the record, there are plans afoot to allow directors to hide their home addresses."

I know , you got that from my link to http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmstand/deleg2/st020318/20318s01.htm

"P.S. I'll end this chat now, just in case you turn up at my house :)"

Interesting theory but I don't know how it's possible or why I'd spend the time . All you've actually come up with is a naive , unhelpfull solution to a scenario you have not experienced before .

Changing Isp isn't like complaining about a cabbage .

They have control , via the issue of a valid MAC , over the one and only telephone line the average family will have in their home .

Without a valid MAC you are their effective "slave customer" unless you can get a new telephone line installed OR force them to give you a valid MAC .

Do you really think I would threaten to visit some poor sod's house , who probably doesn't know what their lower level office staff are doing , if there was any other way ? I wouldn't want the expense .

End of story .

Re: MAC from Pipex. Wierd things have happenend now. I not only got my MAC over the phone, but they also sent me 2 emails with it, then rang up this am to check that I have received it!. Checked with new provider - MAC seems to be valid. The only thing I did do was point out that there had been a significant number of complaints made about them on the web and copied them some of the 'reviews' of them made. It only took me 5 months! I

Congratulations :-)

Looks like they are improving .